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Date: 30 Aug 2004 10:29:17
From: Scott Bemis
Subject: sea kayakers using water relaunchable kites to sail with a sea kayak?
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Has anyone seen or read of sea kayakers using water relaunchable kites
to sail with a sea kayak?
I am a little hesitant due to all the lines on a kite, in particular
the potential for entanglement with a powered kite. This is the
situation of capsizing in the sea kayak with kite still powered by the
wind. There would be still significant tension on the lines. Larger
kites also generate a fair amount of power. Kiters can be lifted out
of the water and "fly" for a fair distance in the air. As this would
be a somewhat downwind situation, and I do not understand how I could
keep my hands on the paddle, even with the cleats I have on my kayak,
what is done in a broach situation? The stern rudder will not work. Or
does the kite assist in this situation?
After watching windsurfers and kiters on North Maui, I remain somewhat
curious though. The kiter, with a powered kite, could right himself
after being caught in a breaking wave. He had the kite to assist him.
The windsurfer had a more difficult time - a sail full of water.
Scott Bemis
email: sebemis@self-serv.net
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Date: 30 Aug 2004 19:35:25
From: Paul Skoczylas
Subject: Re: sea kayakers using water relaunchable kites to sail with a sea kayak?
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"Scott Bemis" <sebemis@self-serv.net > wrote in message
news:bc54b988.0408300929.7af372f6@posting.google.com...
> Has anyone seen or read of sea kayakers using water relaunchable kites
> to sail with a sea kayak?
>
> I am a little hesitant due to all the lines on a kite, in particular
> the potential for entanglement with a powered kite. This is the
> situation of capsizing in the sea kayak with kite still powered by the
> wind. There would be still significant tension on the lines. Larger
> kites also generate a fair amount of power. Kiters can be lifted out
> of the water and "fly" for a fair distance in the air. As this would
> be a somewhat downwind situation, and I do not understand how I could
> keep my hands on the paddle, even with the cleats I have on my kayak,
> what is done in a broach situation? The stern rudder will not work. Or
> does the kite assist in this situation?
>
> After watching windsurfers and kiters on North Maui, I remain somewhat
> curious though. The kiter, with a powered kite, could right himself
> after being caught in a breaking wave. He had the kite to assist him.
> The windsurfer had a more difficult time - a sail full of water.
The kites those guys use have a couple levels of safety systems, which will
cause the kite to lose power and drop from the sky (The third level is a
knife.) Of course, if you did tip, you might just want the power of the
kite to pull you back up, or you could end up in a nasty tangling situation.
A four-line kite like those can also be tacked upwind, so you're not limited
to downwind travel.
I don't know how you could steer the kite and paddle at the same time. I
think you'd stow the paddle and use the kayak's rudder to set the boat's
angle.
I couldn't figure out why my buddy said he didn't use a leash on his
kiteboard, until I watched him (and others). The kite generally stays up
after a wipeout, and they can use it to pull themselves back to their
boards.
-Paul
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Date: 30 Aug 2004 19:08:26
From: Michael Daly
Subject: Re: sea kayakers using water relaunchable kites to sail with a sea kayak?
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On 30-Aug-2004, sebemis@self-serv.net (Scott Bemis) wrote:
> Has anyone seen or read of sea kayakers using water relaunchable kites
> to sail with a sea kayak?
I don't know anyone who uses a kite that isn't relaunchable.
> I am a little hesitant due to all the lines on a kite, in particular
> the potential for entanglement with a powered kite. This is the
> situation of capsizing in the sea kayak with kite still powered by the
> wind. There would be still significant tension on the lines. Larger
> kites also generate a fair amount of power. Kiters can be lifted out
> of the water and "fly" for a fair distance in the air.
I can't imagine why you'd want to use that kind of kite. If you want
to use those big wing kites, you'd be better off with a windsurfer.
Kites used by kayakers I know usually have only one line and are
smaller. They can't lift you in anything less than a hurricane.
They start with smaller kites until they get experience and then
move up to larger ones. Even the large ones are a fraction the
size of those big wing-type kites. The popular ones are parafoil
type. The most experienced kite kayaker I know uses one that's
only about 30 sq ft.
A lot of folks start with a golf umbrella. You want the non-metallic
frame and double top that sheds excessive wind. Gustbuster is a
popular brand.
> As this would
> be a somewhat downwind situation, and I do not understand how I could
> keep my hands on the paddle, even with the cleats I have on my kayak,
> what is done in a broach situation? The stern rudder will not work. Or
> does the kite assist in this situation?
If you run the kite line thru a fitting forward of the cockpit, it
will tend to keep you from broaching relative to the wind. You also
want a quick release arrangement so that you can release the kite
in the event of a problem.
Mike
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Date: 30 Aug 2004 21:48:45
From: Michael Daly
Subject: Re: sea kayakers using water relaunchable kites to sail with a sea kayak?
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On 30-Aug-2004, "Michael Daly" <michaelDaly@foo.bar > wrote:
> The most experienced kite kayaker I know uses one that's
> only about 30 sq ft.
On reflection, it's probably half that size. He let me fly it
once and it really pulled. I remember it being really big, on
the order of 5 or 6 ft on a side. However, it was probably more
like 4 ft on the long side, so the area was about 12-16 sq ft.
That's still big for a kayak, since most kayak kites sold in the
local sops are in the range of 6-8 sq ft.
Mike
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Date: 30 Aug 2004 22:31:22
From: Paul Skoczylas
Subject: Re: sea kayakers using water relaunchable kites to sail with a sea kayak?
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"Michael Daly" <michaelDaly@foo.bar > wrote in message
news:87CdnUD6gcOoPa7cRVn-hg@magma.ca...
> On 30-Aug-2004, "Michael Daly" <michaelDaly@foo.bar> wrote:
>
> > The most experienced kite kayaker I know uses one that's
> > only about 30 sq ft.
>
> On reflection, it's probably half that size. He let me fly it
> once and it really pulled. I remember it being really big, on
> the order of 5 or 6 ft on a side. However, it was probably more
> like 4 ft on the long side, so the area was about 12-16 sq ft.
> That's still big for a kayak, since most kayak kites sold in the
> local sops are in the range of 6-8 sq ft.
>
The only 4-line kite (standing on dry land) I've flown was 3 mē (32 sq. ft)
and that was small. My buddy who kitesurfs has four kites, ranging from 8
mē to 17 mē (86-183 sq. ft).
Kites intended for kayaking are obviously very different from the ones used
by kitesurfers!
-Paul
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Date: 31 Aug 2004 05:41:17
From: Michael Daly
Subject: Re: sea kayakers using water relaunchable kites to sail with a sea kayak?
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On 30-Aug-2004, "Paul Skoczylas" <pauls@cfertech.DELETE.com > wrote:
> Kites intended for kayaking are obviously very different from the ones used
> by kitesurfers!
Kayakers probably focus more on survival :-)
I've been wondering if a _big_ kite like the windsurfers use might
be appropriate for someone who is crazy and owns one of those surf
kayaks that is close to a WW in size/handling. So what if you lift
off! I've seen a video of guys that jumped out of a plane in WW
kayaks with wing-type parachutes.
Mike
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