| |
Main
Date: 08 Feb 2007 20:44:11
From: Fred Klingener
Subject: real quiet
|
Gets real quiet here, when there's no water running.
Fred
|
|
| |
Date: 16 Aug 2007 17:57:45
From: Siskuwihane
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
On Aug 16, 10:14 am, Wilko <look...@my.sig > wrote:
> Cricket wrote:
> > "Siskuwihane" <Siskuwih...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:1187266051.423516.168800@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> >> On Aug 15, 9:55 pm, "Matt Clara" <hey.woo...@buzz.off> wrote:
> >>> "Bill Tuthill" <ccree...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> >>>news:46990df7@news.meer.net...
>
> >>>> Matt Clara <hey.woo...@buzz.off> wrote:
> >>>>> What about the Passat wagon--it's a full sized sedan/station wagon--?
> >>>> The Passat TDI wagon was never sold in California due to emissions.
> >>>> I could import one from another state, e.g. Oregon, provided it has
> >>>> enough miles on it. VW supposedly will introduce a cleaner diesel
> >>>> engine
> >>>> next year. But by then, the 2008 Highlander Hybrid will be out, and it
> >>>> might get better mileage, especially in town.
> >>>> Toyota RAV4 and Ford Escape hybrid get fairly good mileage for an SUV,
> >>>> better than any minivan. After driving dirt roads with a rental
> >>>> minivan
> >>>> last week in Idaho, I can see why boaters usually prefer an SUV.
> >>> "Fairly good mileage for an SUV," is like saying, "It doesn't kill too
> >>> much
> >>> for a nuclear bomb."
> >>> How 'bout a real car, that gets good mileage, like the Passat I've
> >>> suggested
> >>> a dozen times now, and a trailer hitch and trailer to haul your
> >>> occasional
> >>> load? Or are you just shittin' us with all this concern for mileage?
> >>> SUV's have no purpose, other than self-indulgence.
> >> Earlier you said a person may need an SUV, now you say they have no
> >> purpose other than self-indulgence. So which is it?
>
> >> A Passat wouldn't last a day on some of the state forest roads around
> >> here.
>
> > Doesn't haul a horse trailer for squat, either.
>
> > You can get quite a few boats in a horse trailer...
>
> > Cricket
>
> You guys have really never driven a Passat 4motion with a decent engine,
> did you? More ground clearance and 4 wheel drive.
> I drive a Skoda Octavia 4X4, which is built on the same platform as the
> Passat's smaller brother, the Golf. It does very well on really bad
> roads, and it's been voted as the caravan towing car of the year in
> several countries. Making remarks about the Passat, with the same 4X4
> system but with more powerful engines available, not being a great car
> for hauling a horse trailer is nonsense.
>
>From what I've read the 4Motion has the same ground clearance as the
standard Passat, not going to cut it where I go on an almost daily
basis. I don't have a horse trailer so I have no issues there.
>This is the kind of roads (and quite a bit worse than that) I've taken
>my Octavia on many times, usually during kayaking holidays in the
>Balkans, mind telling me why my car should have given up on its first
>day there?
A 7" rock? :)
|
| |
Date: 16 Aug 2007 12:07:31
From: Siskuwihane
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
On Aug 15, 9:55 pm, "Matt Clara" <hey.woo...@buzz.off > wrote:
> "Bill Tuthill" <ccree...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:46990df7@news.meer.net...
>
> > Matt Clara <hey.woo...@buzz.off> wrote:
>
> >> What about the Passat wagon--it's a full sized sedan/station wagon--?
>
> > The Passat TDI wagon was never sold in California due to emissions.
> > I could import one from another state, e.g. Oregon, provided it has
> > enough miles on it. VW supposedly will introduce a cleaner diesel engine
> > next year. But by then, the 2008 Highlander Hybrid will be out, and it
> > might get better mileage, especially in town.
>
> > Toyota RAV4 and Ford Escape hybrid get fairly good mileage for an SUV,
> > better than any minivan. After driving dirt roads with a rental minivan
> > last week in Idaho, I can see why boaters usually prefer an SUV.
>
> "Fairly good mileage for an SUV," is like saying, "It doesn't kill too much
> for a nuclear bomb."
> How 'bout a real car, that gets good mileage, like the Passat I've suggested
> a dozen times now, and a trailer hitch and trailer to haul your occasional
> load? Or are you just shittin' us with all this concern for mileage?
> SUV's have no purpose, other than self-indulgence.
Earlier you said a person may need an SUV, now you say they have no
purpose other than self-indulgence. So which is it?
A Passat wouldn't last a day on some of the state forest roads around
here.
|
| | |
Date: 16 Aug 2007 09:25:44
From: Cricket
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
"Siskuwihane" <Siskuwihane@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1187266051.423516.168800@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
> On Aug 15, 9:55 pm, "Matt Clara" <hey.woo...@buzz.off> wrote:
>> "Bill Tuthill" <ccree...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>
>> news:46990df7@news.meer.net...
>>
>> > Matt Clara <hey.woo...@buzz.off> wrote:
>>
>> >> What about the Passat wagon--it's a full sized sedan/station wagon--?
>>
>> > The Passat TDI wagon was never sold in California due to emissions.
>> > I could import one from another state, e.g. Oregon, provided it has
>> > enough miles on it. VW supposedly will introduce a cleaner diesel
>> > engine
>> > next year. But by then, the 2008 Highlander Hybrid will be out, and it
>> > might get better mileage, especially in town.
>>
>> > Toyota RAV4 and Ford Escape hybrid get fairly good mileage for an SUV,
>> > better than any minivan. After driving dirt roads with a rental
>> > minivan
>> > last week in Idaho, I can see why boaters usually prefer an SUV.
>>
>> "Fairly good mileage for an SUV," is like saying, "It doesn't kill too
>> much
>> for a nuclear bomb."
>> How 'bout a real car, that gets good mileage, like the Passat I've
>> suggested
>> a dozen times now, and a trailer hitch and trailer to haul your
>> occasional
>> load? Or are you just shittin' us with all this concern for mileage?
>> SUV's have no purpose, other than self-indulgence.
>
> Earlier you said a person may need an SUV, now you say they have no
> purpose other than self-indulgence. So which is it?
>
> A Passat wouldn't last a day on some of the state forest roads around
> here.
>
Doesn't haul a horse trailer for squat, either.
You can get quite a few boats in a horse trailer...
Cricket
|
| | | |
Date: 16 Aug 2007 16:14:58
From: Wilko
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
Cricket wrote:
> "Siskuwihane" <Siskuwihane@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1187266051.423516.168800@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>> On Aug 15, 9:55 pm, "Matt Clara" <hey.woo...@buzz.off> wrote:
>>> "Bill Tuthill" <ccree...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>
>>> news:46990df7@news.meer.net...
>>>
>>>> Matt Clara <hey.woo...@buzz.off> wrote:
>>>>> What about the Passat wagon--it's a full sized sedan/station wagon--?
>>>> The Passat TDI wagon was never sold in California due to emissions.
>>>> I could import one from another state, e.g. Oregon, provided it has
>>>> enough miles on it. VW supposedly will introduce a cleaner diesel
>>>> engine
>>>> next year. But by then, the 2008 Highlander Hybrid will be out, and it
>>>> might get better mileage, especially in town.
>>>> Toyota RAV4 and Ford Escape hybrid get fairly good mileage for an SUV,
>>>> better than any minivan. After driving dirt roads with a rental
>>>> minivan
>>>> last week in Idaho, I can see why boaters usually prefer an SUV.
>>> "Fairly good mileage for an SUV," is like saying, "It doesn't kill too
>>> much
>>> for a nuclear bomb."
>>> How 'bout a real car, that gets good mileage, like the Passat I've
>>> suggested
>>> a dozen times now, and a trailer hitch and trailer to haul your
>>> occasional
>>> load? Or are you just shittin' us with all this concern for mileage?
>>> SUV's have no purpose, other than self-indulgence.
>> Earlier you said a person may need an SUV, now you say they have no
>> purpose other than self-indulgence. So which is it?
>>
>> A Passat wouldn't last a day on some of the state forest roads around
>> here.
>>
>
> Doesn't haul a horse trailer for squat, either.
>
> You can get quite a few boats in a horse trailer...
>
> Cricket
You guys have really never driven a Passat 4motion with a decent engine,
did you? More ground clearance and 4 wheel drive.
I drive a Skoda Octavia 4X4, which is built on the same platform as the
Passat's smaller brother, the Golf. It does very well on really bad
roads, and it's been voted as the caravan towing car of the year in
several countries. Making remarks about the Passat, with the same 4X4
system but with more powerful engines available, not being a great car
for hauling a horse trailer is nonsense.
This is the kind of roads (and quite a bit worse than that) I've taken
my Octavia on many times, usually during kayaking holidays in the
Balkans, mind telling me why my car should have given up on its first
day there?
http://kayaker.nl/macedonie/P224.jpg
Sure, there are better cars available for offroad trips, but very few,
if any, for a similar price, quality, fuel efficiency or top speed with
boats on top as that.
--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko<a t)dse(d o t >nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/
|
| | | | |
Date: 16 Aug 2007 21:28:14
From: Cricket
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
"Wilko" <look_in@my.sig > wrote in message
news:g5KdnT58oYl9xlnbnZ2dnUVZ8rOdnZ2d@edutel.nl...
> Cricket wrote:
>> "Siskuwihane" <Siskuwihane@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1187266051.423516.168800@r29g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
>>> On Aug 15, 9:55 pm, "Matt Clara" <hey.woo...@buzz.off> wrote:
>>>> "Bill Tuthill" <ccree...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>>>>
>>>> news:46990df7@news.meer.net...
>>>>
>>>>> Matt Clara <hey.woo...@buzz.off> wrote:
>>>>>> What about the Passat wagon--it's a full sized sedan/station wagon--?
>>>>> The Passat TDI wagon was never sold in California due to emissions.
>>>>> I could import one from another state, e.g. Oregon, provided it has
>>>>> enough miles on it. VW supposedly will introduce a cleaner diesel
>>>>> engine
>>>>> next year. But by then, the 2008 Highlander Hybrid will be out, and
>>>>> it
>>>>> might get better mileage, especially in town.
>>>>> Toyota RAV4 and Ford Escape hybrid get fairly good mileage for an SUV,
>>>>> better than any minivan. After driving dirt roads with a rental
>>>>> minivan
>>>>> last week in Idaho, I can see why boaters usually prefer an SUV.
>>>> "Fairly good mileage for an SUV," is like saying, "It doesn't kill too
>>>> much
>>>> for a nuclear bomb."
>>>> How 'bout a real car, that gets good mileage, like the Passat I've
>>>> suggested
>>>> a dozen times now, and a trailer hitch and trailer to haul your
>>>> occasional
>>>> load? Or are you just shittin' us with all this concern for mileage?
>>>> SUV's have no purpose, other than self-indulgence.
>>> Earlier you said a person may need an SUV, now you say they have no
>>> purpose other than self-indulgence. So which is it?
>>>
>>> A Passat wouldn't last a day on some of the state forest roads around
>>> here.
>>>
>>
>> Doesn't haul a horse trailer for squat, either.
>>
>> You can get quite a few boats in a horse trailer...
>>
>> Cricket
>
> You guys have really never driven a Passat 4motion with a decent engine,
> did you? More ground clearance and 4 wheel drive.
> I drive a Skoda Octavia 4X4, which is built on the same platform as the
> Passat's smaller brother, the Golf. It does very well on really bad roads,
> and it's been voted as the caravan towing car of the year in several
> countries. Making remarks about the Passat, with the same 4X4 system but
> with more powerful engines available, not being a great car for hauling a
> horse trailer is nonsense.
>
> This is the kind of roads (and quite a bit worse than that) I've taken my
> Octavia on many times, usually during kayaking holidays in the Balkans,
> mind telling me why my car should have given up on its first day there?
>
> http://kayaker.nl/macedonie/P224.jpg
>
> Sure, there are better cars available for offroad trips, but very few, if
> any, for a similar price, quality, fuel efficiency or top speed with boats
> on top as that.
I took a Plymouth Duster (two wheel drive and rear drive to boot) into Dolly
Sods years ago, on roads exponentially worse than that - and got away with
it. Doesn't make it a good idea. If for no other reason than if you do get
stuck, getting something in to get you unstuck is going to cause a lot more
damage and gas usage than a reasonably sized SUV would have done in the
first place.
Horses for courses - sometimes you need the SUV. I've driven S-10 Blazers
for years - not quite big enough for the most exreme stuff I do, but that
isn't very often, will pull the horse trailer, gets as good milage as
anything else that will do the job. I shoe horses for a living, so I need
four wheel drive and major ground clearance fairly often). It would be silly
to get an Expedition for what I need, but equally silly to have anything
less than the Blazer (or my current, a 4X4 Dodge Dakota, 1987 - I recyle...)
Cricket
>
> --
> Wilko van den Bergh wilko<a t)dse(d o t>nl
> Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
> ---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
> http://kayaker.nl/
|
| | | | |
Date: 16 Aug 2007 21:14:31
From: Steve Cramer
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
Wilko wrote:
>
> This is the kind of roads (and quite a bit worse than that) I've taken
> my Octavia on many times, usually during kayaking holidays in the
> Balkans,
> http://kayaker.nl/macedonie/P224.jpg
Road? What road?
Steve
|
| |
Date: 16 Apr 2007 05:50:24
From: riverman
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
On Apr 16, 4:07 pm, Wilko <look...@my.sig > wrote:
> JohnKuthe wrote:
> > On Apr 14, 2:34 pm, Wilko <look...@my.sig> wrote:
> >> Bill Tuthill wrote:
> >>> Siskuwihane <Siskuwih...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Rumor has it that Honda may bring its 2.2 litre diesel CR-V to the US
> >>>> in 2008.
> >>> That's good. CR-V is a nice vehicle and I like spare tires on the back.
> >>> Although did Honda move the spare tire in the new 2007 model?
> >>> The Jeep Liberty diesel only gets 18 mpg according to Consumer Reports.
> >>> Toyota Highlander hybrid is due for revision in late 2007 (2008 model)
> >>> and expectations are that fuel economy will improve dramatically.
> >>> Possibly a Toyota Tacoma with 6-speed manual would get decent mileage
> >>> on the highway, though not in town. A friend gets 24 mpg in his Tacoma.
> >>> The crew cab has a fairly comfortable back seat, and with gate down,
> >>> the cargo bed is long enough for me to sleep in, although my feet would
> >>> get wet in the rain, sticking out of a camper shell.
> >> Bill, you may want to have a look at the VW Passat wagon, if you want
> >> more room than the Jetta. They come in a 4X4 version and have several
> >> (pretty powerful) diesel engines. I have the Skoda Octavia, with the
> >> same VW 4X4 system, but based on the Golf/Jetta undercarriage. I'd buy
> >> another one in a heartbeat (Did so already, this is my third Octavia 4X4
> >> :-)).
>
> > Your third? In how many years? Why did you get rid of #1 and #2? How
> > many miles did they have on them when you got rid of them? How much
> > maintenance didi each require?
>
> > Saying you're on the "third" of any vehicle does not necesarily mean
> > they are good vehicles. It could mean you're just making the same
> > mistake over and over! ;-)
>
> > John Kuthe...
>
> The first two were lease cars, John. After they get to their maximum
> amount of miles (usually 100K miles) you have to hand them in and pick
> another (new) car (or buy the lease car). I drove 1 year and 10 months
> in the first one, then it reached its maximum miles, and I drove one
> year and 11 months in the second one before it reached its maximum. The
> third one I bought, it now has 100K on it as well.
>
> --
>
So do you think owning is preferable to leasing? If this was a lease
car, you'd be on the verge of replacing it with a new car. It seems
that you're committed to driving your current car into the dirt now.
--riverman
|
| | |
Date: 16 Apr 2007 16:53:46
From: Wilko
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
riverman wrote:
> On Apr 16, 4:07 pm, Wilko <look...@my.sig> wrote:
>> JohnKuthe wrote:
>>> On Apr 14, 2:34 pm, Wilko <look...@my.sig> wrote:
>>>> Bill Tuthill wrote:
>>>>> Siskuwihane <Siskuwih...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> Rumor has it that Honda may bring its 2.2 litre diesel CR-V to the US
>>>>>> in 2008.
>>>>> That's good. CR-V is a nice vehicle and I like spare tires on the back.
>>>>> Although did Honda move the spare tire in the new 2007 model?
>>>>> The Jeep Liberty diesel only gets 18 mpg according to Consumer Reports.
>>>>> Toyota Highlander hybrid is due for revision in late 2007 (2008 model)
>>>>> and expectations are that fuel economy will improve dramatically.
>>>>> Possibly a Toyota Tacoma with 6-speed manual would get decent mileage
>>>>> on the highway, though not in town. A friend gets 24 mpg in his Tacoma.
>>>>> The crew cab has a fairly comfortable back seat, and with gate down,
>>>>> the cargo bed is long enough for me to sleep in, although my feet would
>>>>> get wet in the rain, sticking out of a camper shell.
>>>> Bill, you may want to have a look at the VW Passat wagon, if you want
>>>> more room than the Jetta. They come in a 4X4 version and have several
>>>> (pretty powerful) diesel engines. I have the Skoda Octavia, with the
>>>> same VW 4X4 system, but based on the Golf/Jetta undercarriage. I'd buy
>>>> another one in a heartbeat (Did so already, this is my third Octavia 4X4
>>>> :-)).
>>> Your third? In how many years? Why did you get rid of #1 and #2? How
>>> many miles did they have on them when you got rid of them? How much
>>> maintenance didi each require?
>>> Saying you're on the "third" of any vehicle does not necesarily mean
>>> they are good vehicles. It could mean you're just making the same
>>> mistake over and over! ;-)
>>> John Kuthe...
>> The first two were lease cars, John. After they get to their maximum
>> amount of miles (usually 100K miles) you have to hand them in and pick
>> another (new) car (or buy the lease car). I drove 1 year and 10 months
>> in the first one, then it reached its maximum miles, and I drove one
>> year and 11 months in the second one before it reached its maximum. The
>> third one I bought, it now has 100K on it as well.
>>
>> --
>>
>
> So do you think owning is preferable to leasing? If this was a lease
> car, you'd be on the verge of replacing it with a new car. It seems
> that you're committed to driving your current car into the dirt now.
I think it depends. I became a student after working for the past 7
years, so leasing is not an option any more. Also, I stopped driving to
work every working day and I stopped driving to the Czech Republic every
second weekend, which cut my annual miles from 65K to roughly 10K now.
In my view leasing in this country is only interesting if:
-your company pays for the lease contract with a tax free personal budget,
-you can afford it and
-if you drive (a lot) more than what your lease contract is for.
In my case, I'd pay the lease company (through the company I worked for)
for 25K miles a year and drive well over 65K miles a year. If I had to
pay the lease company out of my own pocket, I'd pay using after taxes
money (bye bye 42%) but still have to pay the full amount (1150 euro
incl. fuel per month, add roughly 33% for the price in US$).
I can afford my own car, since I drive miles less now than what a
minimum lease contract goes for and since this car is used. I couldn't
afford the 65K miles a year, especially not out of my non-existent paycheck.
--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko<a t)dse(d o t >nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/
|
| |
Date: 16 Apr 2007 04:00:30
From: JohnKuthe
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
On Apr 16, 3:07 am, Wilko <look...@my.sig > wrote:
> JohnKuthe wrote:
> > On Apr 14, 2:34 pm, Wilko <look...@my.sig> wrote:
> >> Bill Tuthill wrote:
> >>> Siskuwihane <Siskuwih...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Rumor has it that Honda may bring its 2.2 litre diesel CR-V to the US
> >>>> in 2008.
> >>> That's good. CR-V is a nice vehicle and I like spare tires on the back.
> >>> Although did Honda move the spare tire in the new 2007 model?
> >>> The Jeep Liberty diesel only gets 18 mpg according to Consumer Reports.
> >>> Toyota Highlander hybrid is due for revision in late 2007 (2008 model)
> >>> and expectations are that fuel economy will improve dramatically.
> >>> Possibly a Toyota Tacoma with 6-speed manual would get decent mileage
> >>> on the highway, though not in town. A friend gets 24 mpg in his Tacoma.
> >>> The crew cab has a fairly comfortable back seat, and with gate down,
> >>> the cargo bed is long enough for me to sleep in, although my feet would
> >>> get wet in the rain, sticking out of a camper shell.
> >> Bill, you may want to have a look at the VW Passat wagon, if you want
> >> more room than the Jetta. They come in a 4X4 version and have several
> >> (pretty powerful) diesel engines. I have the Skoda Octavia, with the
> >> same VW 4X4 system, but based on the Golf/Jetta undercarriage. I'd buy
> >> another one in a heartbeat (Did so already, this is my third Octavia 4X4
> >> :-)).
>
> > Your third? In how many years? Why did you get rid of #1 and #2? How
> > many miles did they have on them when you got rid of them? How much
> > maintenance didi each require?
>
> > Saying you're on the "third" of any vehicle does not necesarily mean
> > they are good vehicles. It could mean you're just making the same
> > mistake over and over! ;-)
>
> > John Kuthe...
>
> The first two were lease cars, John. After they get to their maximum
> amount of miles (usually 100K miles) you have to hand them in and pick
> another (new) car (or buy the lease car). I drove 1 year and 10 months
> in the first one, then it reached its maximum miles, and I drove one
> year and 11 months in the second one before it reached its maximum. The
> third one I bought, it now has 100K on it as well.
Must be nice! I guess United Statesians aren't the only ones who are
filthily rich, eh? ;-)
John Kuthe...
|
| | |
Date: 16 Apr 2007 16:58:14
From: Wilko
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
JohnKuthe wrote:
> On Apr 16, 3:07 am, Wilko <look...@my.sig> wrote:
>> The first two were lease cars, John. After they get to their maximum
>> amount of miles (usually 100K miles) you have to hand them in and pick
>> another (new) car (or buy the lease car). I drove 1 year and 10 months
>> in the first one, then it reached its maximum miles, and I drove one
>> year and 11 months in the second one before it reached its maximum. The
>> third one I bought, it now has 100K on it as well.
>
> Must be nice! I guess United Statesians aren't the only ones who are
> filthily rich, eh? ;-)
Hmmm, I bet that you make a lot more money than me this year, John!
In my view, keeping a relationship going, especially a long distance one
like I had, requires investing in it, even if that means investing most
of what you earn. In my case I invested a lot of time, money and energy
to do the 600mile (one way) trip every second weekend for so many years.
On top of that I had dirt cheap living accomodations (76 euro/month rent
for one tiny room).
--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko<a t)dse(d o t >nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/
|
| |
Date: 15 Apr 2007 20:51:40
From: JohnKuthe
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
On Apr 14, 2:34 pm, Wilko <look...@my.sig > wrote:
> Bill Tuthill wrote:
> > Siskuwihane <Siskuwih...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> Rumor has it that Honda may bring its 2.2 litre diesel CR-V to the US
> >> in 2008.
>
> > That's good. CR-V is a nice vehicle and I like spare tires on the back.
> > Although did Honda move the spare tire in the new 2007 model?
>
> > The Jeep Liberty diesel only gets 18 mpg according to Consumer Reports.
>
> > Toyota Highlander hybrid is due for revision in late 2007 (2008 model)
> > and expectations are that fuel economy will improve dramatically.
>
> > Possibly a Toyota Tacoma with 6-speed manual would get decent mileage
> > on the highway, though not in town. A friend gets 24 mpg in his Tacoma.
> > The crew cab has a fairly comfortable back seat, and with gate down,
> > the cargo bed is long enough for me to sleep in, although my feet would
> > get wet in the rain, sticking out of a camper shell.
>
> Bill, you may want to have a look at the VW Passat wagon, if you want
> more room than the Jetta. They come in a 4X4 version and have several
> (pretty powerful) diesel engines. I have the Skoda Octavia, with the
> same VW 4X4 system, but based on the Golf/Jetta undercarriage. I'd buy
> another one in a heartbeat (Did so already, this is my third Octavia 4X4
> :-)).
Your third? In how many years? Why did you get rid of #1 and #2? How
many miles did they have on them when you got rid of them? How much
maintenance didi each require?
Saying you're on the "third" of any vehicle does not necesarily mean
they are good vehicles. It could mean you're just making the same
mistake over and over! ;-)
John Kuthe...
|
| | |
Date: 16 Apr 2007 10:07:39
From: Wilko
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
JohnKuthe wrote:
> On Apr 14, 2:34 pm, Wilko <look...@my.sig> wrote:
>> Bill Tuthill wrote:
>>> Siskuwihane <Siskuwih...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Rumor has it that Honda may bring its 2.2 litre diesel CR-V to the US
>>>> in 2008.
>>> That's good. CR-V is a nice vehicle and I like spare tires on the back.
>>> Although did Honda move the spare tire in the new 2007 model?
>>> The Jeep Liberty diesel only gets 18 mpg according to Consumer Reports.
>>> Toyota Highlander hybrid is due for revision in late 2007 (2008 model)
>>> and expectations are that fuel economy will improve dramatically.
>>> Possibly a Toyota Tacoma with 6-speed manual would get decent mileage
>>> on the highway, though not in town. A friend gets 24 mpg in his Tacoma.
>>> The crew cab has a fairly comfortable back seat, and with gate down,
>>> the cargo bed is long enough for me to sleep in, although my feet would
>>> get wet in the rain, sticking out of a camper shell.
>> Bill, you may want to have a look at the VW Passat wagon, if you want
>> more room than the Jetta. They come in a 4X4 version and have several
>> (pretty powerful) diesel engines. I have the Skoda Octavia, with the
>> same VW 4X4 system, but based on the Golf/Jetta undercarriage. I'd buy
>> another one in a heartbeat (Did so already, this is my third Octavia 4X4
>> :-)).
>
> Your third? In how many years? Why did you get rid of #1 and #2? How
> many miles did they have on them when you got rid of them? How much
> maintenance didi each require?
>
> Saying you're on the "third" of any vehicle does not necesarily mean
> they are good vehicles. It could mean you're just making the same
> mistake over and over! ;-)
>
> John Kuthe...
>
>
The first two were lease cars, John. After they get to their maximum
amount of miles (usually 100K miles) you have to hand them in and pick
another (new) car (or buy the lease car). I drove 1 year and 10 months
in the first one, then it reached its maximum miles, and I drove one
year and 11 months in the second one before it reached its maximum. The
third one I bought, it now has 100K on it as well.
--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko<a t)dse(d o t >nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/
|
| |
Date: 14 Apr 2007 05:06:49
From: Siskuwihane
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
On Apr 12, 10:47 pm, Bill Tuthill <ccree...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Siskuwihane <Siskuwih...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Rumor has it that Honda may bring its 2.2 litre diesel CR-V to the US
> > in 2008.
>
> That's good. CR-V is a nice vehicle and I like spare tires on the back.
> Although did Honda move the spare tire in the new 2007 model?
>
Yes they did move it inside. It also doesn't come with the little
picnic table that covers the rear storage area (now spare tire
storage). Not that it would be a deal breaker with me, but it's very
convenient having that "waterproof" under-the-picnic table storage
area where I can throw wet things. I've only got 90k on my '99 so I'll
hold on to it for a little while longer.
|
| | |
Date: 18 Apr 2007 09:57:49
From: Bill Tuthill
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
Siskuwihane <Siskuwihane@gmail.com > wrote:
>>
>> That's good. CR-V is a nice vehicle and I like spare tires on the back.
>> Although did Honda move the spare tire in the new 2007 model?
>>
> Yes they did move it inside. It also doesn't come with the little
> picnic table that covers the rear storage area (now spare tire
> storage). Not that it would be a deal breaker with me, but it's very
> convenient having that "waterproof" under-the-picnic table storage
> area where I can throw wet things.
Grumble.
> I've only got 90k on my '99 so I'll hold on to it for a while longer.
Good plan.
I just did a Compare Models with a Toyota RAV4 on the Consumer Reports
website. The RAV4 4-cylinder gets better mileage in the city, 17 vs 15,
but the same 29 mpg on the highway. The RAV4 has much more cargo space,
probably due to the spare tire design. The RAV4 is faster, 9.8 vs 10.6
seconds to 60 mph. In the gov't crash test, the CR-V scored better for
front passenger safety, excellent vs good. The RAV4 is slightly longer
but weighs less.
|
| |
Date: 13 Apr 2007 06:23:57
From: riverman
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
On Apr 13, 10:47 am, Bill Tuthill <ccree...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Siskuwihane <Siskuwih...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Rumor has it that Honda may bring its 2.2 litre diesel CR-V to the US
> > in 2008.
>
> That's good. CR-V is a nice vehicle and I like spare tires on the back.
> Although did Honda move the spare tire in the new 2007 model?
>
> The Jeep Liberty diesel only gets 18 mpg according to Consumer Reports.
>
> Toyota Highlander hybrid is due for revision in late 2007 (2008 model)
> and expectations are that fuel economy will improve dramatically.
>
> Possibly a Toyota Tacoma with 6-speed manual would get decent mileage
> on the highway, though not in town. A friend gets 24 mpg in his Tacoma.
> The crew cab has a fairly comfortable back seat, and with gate down,
> the cargo bed is long enough for me to sleep in, although my feet would
> get wet in the rain, sticking out of a camper shell.
When I lived in Latvia, I had a Nissan Terrano, which is the European
version of a Pathfinder. It was a 2-door, with a full sized cargo
space. It had a 5 speed manual tranny, a 2.2 liter engine, 4 wheel
drive, and would go over 100 mph if I wanted it to. But at highway
speed (65-70 mph), it got 35+ miles per gallon.
In the US, they won't sell this vehicle with such a small engine, and
with all the pollution controls, oversized frame, extra heavy bumper,
extra steel in the doors, trunk, gas tank, etc etc etc, it gets 11-15
miles per gallon.
--riverman
|
| |
Date: 12 Apr 2007 18:48:40
From: Siskuwihane
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
On Apr 12, 2:22 pm, Bill Tuthill <ccree...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> Matt Clara <hey.woo...@buzz.off> wrote:
>
> >> What do you want to talk about? I'm interested in a discussion
> >> of vehicles with good fuel economy that can carry a lot of gear.
>
> > I suppose you'd have to define "a lot," because a car may not be big enough
> > and you need an SUV, etc., but if a car will do, I'd recommend a Volkswagen
> > Passat TDI stationwagon. They're full sized cars and the TDI with manual
> > transmission gets upwards of fifty miles to the gallon. You can drive a
> > Passat from Michigan to Florida and back on a tank and a half of fuel. The
> > engines will last 250,000 miles and more if treated properly. The rest of
> > the car will fall apart around it, but that engine'll just keep on goin...
> > I have a Jetta TDI, and it's too small. The Jetta wagon would have been a
> > better choice.
>
> TDI means diesel, right? Have you experimented with biodiesel?
>
> Currently I have a Trooper that never gets over 21 mpg. If I needed to
> replace it before the 2008 Highlander Hybrid appears, I guess my choice
> would be the Ford Escape hybrid or Toyota RAV4, both 29 mpg.
>
> Jetta wagon isn't really big enough for rafting.
Rumor has it that Honda may bring its 2.2 litre diesel CR-V to the US
in 2008.
|
| | |
Date: 12 Apr 2007 19:47:56
From: Bill Tuthill
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
Siskuwihane <Siskuwihane@gmail.com > wrote:
>
> Rumor has it that Honda may bring its 2.2 litre diesel CR-V to the US
> in 2008.
That's good. CR-V is a nice vehicle and I like spare tires on the back.
Although did Honda move the spare tire in the new 2007 model?
The Jeep Liberty diesel only gets 18 mpg according to Consumer Reports.
Toyota Highlander hybrid is due for revision in late 2007 (2008 model)
and expectations are that fuel economy will improve dramatically.
Possibly a Toyota Tacoma with 6-speed manual would get decent mileage
on the highway, though not in town. A friend gets 24 mpg in his Tacoma.
The crew cab has a fairly comfortable back seat, and with gate down,
the cargo bed is long enough for me to sleep in, although my feet would
get wet in the rain, sticking out of a camper shell.
|
| | | |
Date: 14 Apr 2007 21:34:33
From: Wilko
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
Bill Tuthill wrote:
> Siskuwihane <Siskuwihane@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Rumor has it that Honda may bring its 2.2 litre diesel CR-V to the US
>> in 2008.
>
> That's good. CR-V is a nice vehicle and I like spare tires on the back.
> Although did Honda move the spare tire in the new 2007 model?
>
> The Jeep Liberty diesel only gets 18 mpg according to Consumer Reports.
>
> Toyota Highlander hybrid is due for revision in late 2007 (2008 model)
> and expectations are that fuel economy will improve dramatically.
>
> Possibly a Toyota Tacoma with 6-speed manual would get decent mileage
> on the highway, though not in town. A friend gets 24 mpg in his Tacoma.
> The crew cab has a fairly comfortable back seat, and with gate down,
> the cargo bed is long enough for me to sleep in, although my feet would
> get wet in the rain, sticking out of a camper shell.
>
Bill, you may want to have a look at the VW Passat wagon, if you want
more room than the Jetta. They come in a 4X4 version and have several
(pretty powerful) diesel engines. I have the Skoda Octavia, with the
same VW 4X4 system, but based on the Golf/Jetta undercarriage. I'd buy
another one in a heartbeat (Did so already, this is my third Octavia 4X4
:-)).
--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko<a t)dse(d o t >nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/
|
| |
Date: 13 Feb 2007 06:51:30
From: Moby Dick
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
On Feb 13, 5:07 am, John Fereira <j...@cornell.edu > wrote:
> "Moby Dick" <Dick.Roches...@gmail.com> wrote innews:1171338050.606022.69030@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 12, 8:36 pm, "Moby Dick" <Dick.Roches...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Feb 12, 8:12 pm, "riverman" <myronb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> > On Feb 13, 2:40 am, Bill Tuthill <ccree...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >> > > John Fereira <j...@cornell.edu> wrote:
>
> >> > > >> Thanks Mike. If the group is for more than kayakers (and that's
> >> > > >> fine), then use all the dang keywords: "kayaking", "canoing",
> >> > > >> "paddling". That way people searching for any of the above
> >> > > >> stumble upon the group.
>
> >> > > > This group isn't a Google group or Yahoo group in the same sense
> >> > > > that you may be familiar with. It's a usenet newsgroup and
> >> > > > doesn't have any associated keywords. Usenet was around long
> >> > > > before Google or Yahoe or any other web site (I've been
> >> > > > participating on Usenet since 1985). This group has been around
> >> > > > for well over a decade (that's how long I've been participating
> >> > > > and there are several here that were around long before I). I
> >> > > > don't want to discourage you from particpating but it's not wise
> >> > > > to jump into a group that's been around for a long time and
> >> > > > dictate to those that have been partipating in it for many years
> >> > > > how to use the group.
>
> >> > > How does one add keywords to a Usenet group? It must be possible,
> >> > > because I see (some) group descriptions in my newsreader.
>
> >> > I'm not sure what 'adding keywords to a Usenet group' even means.
> >> > There are some places in different websites and newsreaders where
> >> > there is a description of the newsgroup, but those are external
> >> > things, like wrapping paper. The group itself doesn't have a
> >> > structure that would have keywords, etc. Your newsreader is
> >> > google.groups, so you are seeing the web interface that Google puts
> >> > on Usenet. THEY provide a description of the group, but if someone
> >> > is accessing through some other medium or even another website, they
> >> > won't see the same descriptions.
>
> >> > Try putting 'rec.boats.paddle' into google. You'll get hit after
> >> > hit, all describing the newsgroup, but none of them will be the
> >> > actual newsgroup itself; you need a newsreader to access the group.
> >> > Each of these different newsreaders will have their own description
> >> > of what the group is, does, discusses, etc. Each of them will enable
> >> > you to post messages, but none of them are THE place where the
> >> > messages are posted.
>
> >> > HTH
>
> >> > BTW: Moby--don't stop posting on this thread. This is an excellent
> >> > way to learn some Usenet etiquette and meet the various folks who
> >> > hang out here. This is a good forum to ask all sorts of silly
> >> > questions, like "What does 'HTH' and 'BTW' mean?"
>
> >> > --riverman
>
> >> So far the usenet etiquette strikes me as bizarre. However, I'll
> >> continue posting. I've been posting to rec.woodworking (through the
> >> Google font end) for years (although not as far back as "1985.") I
> >> also moderate a Yahoo! group called signal and image proccessing. So I
> >> know a lot of the acronyms like BTW. I'll DAGS HTH to see what that
> >> means......
>
> First of all, congrats on the new job offer.
>
> Seems to me that if you've been posting in rec.woodworking that the may be a
> cedar strip built kayak in your future. Here's the model that I built
> (http://www.outer-island.com/) . You might want to check out the definitive
> kayak building site at:http://www.kayakforum.com/
>
>
>
> > Ahh. HTH = Hope this helps.
> > BYW, DAGS = Do a Google Search.
> > IMHO, the Google interface is quite nice. You can rate posters and see
> > ratings of post so you don't waste you time with spam-like postings.
> > You can see the reply tree, too.
>
> Most good news readers will do that as well. The one I have has a scoring
> feature that allows you to filter out or hightling posters (or subjects) and
> will thread responses as well.
>
> > Plus, you don't have to load any
> > special readers and junk.
>
> My take on that is that the alternative is trying to use one application
> that tries to do web browsing, usenet reading/posting, email, etc, which
> tends to bring in a lot of overhead that I don't need at the time. But I'm
> a programmer analyst/systems architect so I'm a bit more sensative to that
> sort of thing.
>
> > But of course, there's the tempation to top-
> > post.
>
> As you can see from my response, I neither top posted nor bottom posted but
> posted all my content inline. I prefer that approach as it puts the new
> content I am adding in context.
>
> Yes, usenet etiquette is a bit bizarre, and it is somewhat antiquated, but
> it still works and in many ways I prefer it to web based forums and email
> lists. I don't see nearly as much spam on usenet anymore as I used to and
> it's far less than what I see in the dozens of mailing lists I'm on.
>
> Good luck in your quest for a new kayak. If you have any questions about a
> specific model you encounter, let us know.
Wow, I'm impressed with the beauty of the cedar strip kayaks! A friend
of a friend of mine build sea kayaks. I visited his shop two years
ago. IIRC, he had a light wooden cover which he then covered with a
fabric and then soaked it with some sort of epoxy. The epoxy basically
made the fabric transparent making the beautiful wood show through. I
thought then that I'd love to do that. However, the resulting boats
seemed more of an artwork than a functioning boat. I'd be afraid from
scratching or bashing it on rocks.....
Thanks for the link to kayak forum. I've bookmarked it.
Cheers
|
| |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 19:40:50
From: Moby Dick
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
On Feb 12, 8:36 pm, "Moby Dick" <Dick.Roches...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Feb 12, 8:12 pm, "riverman" <myronb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > On Feb 13, 2:40 am, Bill Tuthill <ccree...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > > John Fereira <j...@cornell.edu> wrote:
>
> > > >> Thanks Mike. If the group is for more than kayakers (and that's fine),
> > > >> then use all the dang keywords: "kayaking", "canoing", "paddling".
> > > >> That way people searching for any of the above stumble upon the group.
>
> > > > This group isn't a Google group or Yahoo group in the same sense that you
> > > > may be familiar with. It's a usenet newsgroup and doesn't have any
> > > > associated keywords. Usenet was around long before Google or Yahoe or any
> > > > other web site (I've been participating on Usenet since 1985). This group
> > > > has been around for well over a decade (that's how long I've been
> > > > participating and there are several here that were around long before I). I
> > > > don't want to discourage you from particpating but it's not wise to jump
> > > > into a group that's been around for a long time and dictate to those that
> > > > have been partipating in it for many years how to use the group.
>
> > > How does one add keywords to a Usenet group? It must be possible,
> > > because I see (some) group descriptions in my newsreader.
>
> > I'm not sure what 'adding keywords to a Usenet group' even means.
> > There are some places in different websites and newsreaders where
> > there is a description of the newsgroup, but those are external
> > things, like wrapping paper. The group itself doesn't have a structure
> > that would have keywords, etc. Your newsreader is google.groups, so
> > you are seeing the web interface that Google puts on Usenet. THEY
> > provide a description of the group, but if someone is accessing
> > through some other medium or even another website, they won't see the
> > same descriptions.
>
> > Try putting 'rec.boats.paddle' into google. You'll get hit after hit,
> > all describing the newsgroup, but none of them will be the actual
> > newsgroup itself; you need a newsreader to access the group. Each of
> > these different newsreaders will have their own description of what
> > the group is, does, discusses, etc. Each of them will enable you to
> > post messages, but none of them are THE place where the messages are
> > posted.
>
> > HTH
>
> > BTW: Moby--don't stop posting on this thread. This is an excellent way
> > to learn some Usenet etiquette and meet the various folks who hang out
> > here. This is a good forum to ask all sorts of silly questions, like
> > "What does 'HTH' and 'BTW' mean?"
>
> > --riverman
>
> So far the usenet etiquette strikes me as bizarre. However, I'll
> continue posting. I've been posting to rec.woodworking (through the
> Google font end) for years (although not as far back as "1985.") I
> also moderate a Yahoo! group called signal and image proccessing. So I
> know a lot of the acronyms like BTW. I'll DAGS HTH to see what that
> means......
Ahh. HTH = Hope this helps.
BYW, DAGS = Do a Google Search.
IMHO, the Google interface is quite nice. You can rate posters and see
ratings of post so you don't waste you time with spam-like postings.
You can see the reply tree, too. Plus, you don't have to load any
special readers and junk. But of course, there's the tempation to top-
post.
|
| | |
Date: 13 Feb 2007 12:07:33
From: John Fereira
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
"Moby Dick" <Dick.Rochester@gmail.com > wrote in
news:1171338050.606022.69030@a75g2000cwd.googlegroups.com:
> On Feb 12, 8:36 pm, "Moby Dick" <Dick.Roches...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Feb 12, 8:12 pm, "riverman" <myronb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> > On Feb 13, 2:40 am, Bill Tuthill <ccree...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>> > > John Fereira <j...@cornell.edu> wrote:
>>
>> > > >> Thanks Mike. If the group is for more than kayakers (and that's
>> > > >> fine), then use all the dang keywords: "kayaking", "canoing",
>> > > >> "paddling". That way people searching for any of the above
>> > > >> stumble upon the group.
>>
>> > > > This group isn't a Google group or Yahoo group in the same sense
>> > > > that you may be familiar with. It's a usenet newsgroup and
>> > > > doesn't have any associated keywords. Usenet was around long
>> > > > before Google or Yahoe or any other web site (I've been
>> > > > participating on Usenet since 1985). This group has been around
>> > > > for well over a decade (that's how long I've been participating
>> > > > and there are several here that were around long before I). I
>> > > > don't want to discourage you from particpating but it's not wise
>> > > > to jump into a group that's been around for a long time and
>> > > > dictate to those that have been partipating in it for many years
>> > > > how to use the group.
>>
>> > > How does one add keywords to a Usenet group? It must be possible,
>> > > because I see (some) group descriptions in my newsreader.
>>
>> > I'm not sure what 'adding keywords to a Usenet group' even means.
>> > There are some places in different websites and newsreaders where
>> > there is a description of the newsgroup, but those are external
>> > things, like wrapping paper. The group itself doesn't have a
>> > structure that would have keywords, etc. Your newsreader is
>> > google.groups, so you are seeing the web interface that Google puts
>> > on Usenet. THEY provide a description of the group, but if someone
>> > is accessing through some other medium or even another website, they
>> > won't see the same descriptions.
>>
>> > Try putting 'rec.boats.paddle' into google. You'll get hit after
>> > hit, all describing the newsgroup, but none of them will be the
>> > actual newsgroup itself; you need a newsreader to access the group.
>> > Each of these different newsreaders will have their own description
>> > of what the group is, does, discusses, etc. Each of them will enable
>> > you to post messages, but none of them are THE place where the
>> > messages are posted.
>>
>> > HTH
>>
>> > BTW: Moby--don't stop posting on this thread. This is an excellent
>> > way to learn some Usenet etiquette and meet the various folks who
>> > hang out here. This is a good forum to ask all sorts of silly
>> > questions, like "What does 'HTH' and 'BTW' mean?"
>>
>> > --riverman
>>
>> So far the usenet etiquette strikes me as bizarre. However, I'll
>> continue posting. I've been posting to rec.woodworking (through the
>> Google font end) for years (although not as far back as "1985.") I
>> also moderate a Yahoo! group called signal and image proccessing. So I
>> know a lot of the acronyms like BTW. I'll DAGS HTH to see what that
>> means......
First of all, congrats on the new job offer.
Seems to me that if you've been posting in rec.woodworking that the may be a
cedar strip built kayak in your future. Here's the model that I built
(http://www.outer-island.com/) . You might want to check out the definitive
kayak building site at: http://www.kayakforum.com/
>
> Ahh. HTH = Hope this helps.
> BYW, DAGS = Do a Google Search.
> IMHO, the Google interface is quite nice. You can rate posters and see
> ratings of post so you don't waste you time with spam-like postings.
> You can see the reply tree, too.
Most good news readers will do that as well. The one I have has a scoring
feature that allows you to filter out or hightling posters (or subjects) and
will thread responses as well.
> Plus, you don't have to load any
> special readers and junk.
My take on that is that the alternative is trying to use one application
that tries to do web browsing, usenet reading/posting, email, etc, which
tends to bring in a lot of overhead that I don't need at the time. But I'm
a programmer analyst/systems architect so I'm a bit more sensative to that
sort of thing.
> But of course, there's the tempation to top-
> post.
As you can see from my response, I neither top posted nor bottom posted but
posted all my content inline. I prefer that approach as it puts the new
content I am adding in context.
Yes, usenet etiquette is a bit bizarre, and it is somewhat antiquated, but
it still works and in many ways I prefer it to web based forums and email
lists. I don't see nearly as much spam on usenet anymore as I used to and
it's far less than what I see in the dozens of mailing lists I'm on.
Good luck in your quest for a new kayak. If you have any questions about a
specific model you encounter, let us know.
|
| |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 19:36:36
From: Moby Dick
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
On Feb 12, 8:12 pm, "riverman" <myronb...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Feb 13, 2:40 am, Bill Tuthill <ccree...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> > John Fereira <j...@cornell.edu> wrote:
>
> > >> Thanks Mike. If the group is for more than kayakers (and that's fine),
> > >> then use all the dang keywords: "kayaking", "canoing", "paddling".
> > >> That way people searching for any of the above stumble upon the group.
>
> > > This group isn't a Google group or Yahoo group in the same sense that you
> > > may be familiar with. It's a usenet newsgroup and doesn't have any
> > > associated keywords. Usenet was around long before Google or Yahoe or any
> > > other web site (I've been participating on Usenet since 1985). This group
> > > has been around for well over a decade (that's how long I've been
> > > participating and there are several here that were around long before I). I
> > > don't want to discourage you from particpating but it's not wise to jump
> > > into a group that's been around for a long time and dictate to those that
> > > have been partipating in it for many years how to use the group.
>
> > How does one add keywords to a Usenet group? It must be possible,
> > because I see (some) group descriptions in my newsreader.
>
> I'm not sure what 'adding keywords to a Usenet group' even means.
> There are some places in different websites and newsreaders where
> there is a description of the newsgroup, but those are external
> things, like wrapping paper. The group itself doesn't have a structure
> that would have keywords, etc. Your newsreader is google.groups, so
> you are seeing the web interface that Google puts on Usenet. THEY
> provide a description of the group, but if someone is accessing
> through some other medium or even another website, they won't see the
> same descriptions.
>
> Try putting 'rec.boats.paddle' into google. You'll get hit after hit,
> all describing the newsgroup, but none of them will be the actual
> newsgroup itself; you need a newsreader to access the group. Each of
> these different newsreaders will have their own description of what
> the group is, does, discusses, etc. Each of them will enable you to
> post messages, but none of them are THE place where the messages are
> posted.
>
> HTH
>
> BTW: Moby--don't stop posting on this thread. This is an excellent way
> to learn some Usenet etiquette and meet the various folks who hang out
> here. This is a good forum to ask all sorts of silly questions, like
> "What does 'HTH' and 'BTW' mean?"
>
> --riverman
So far the usenet etiquette strikes me as bizarre. However, I'll
continue posting. I've been posting to rec.woodworking (through the
Google font end) for years (although not as far back as "1985.") I
also moderate a Yahoo! group called signal and image proccessing. So I
know a lot of the acronyms like BTW. I'll DAGS HTH to see what that
means......
|
| |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 19:12:19
From: riverman
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
On Feb 13, 2:40 am, Bill Tuthill <ccree...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> John Fereira <j...@cornell.edu> wrote:
>
> >> Thanks Mike. If the group is for more than kayakers (and that's fine),
> >> then use all the dang keywords: "kayaking", "canoing", "paddling".
> >> That way people searching for any of the above stumble upon the group.
>
> > This group isn't a Google group or Yahoo group in the same sense that you
> > may be familiar with. It's a usenet newsgroup and doesn't have any
> > associated keywords. Usenet was around long before Google or Yahoe or any
> > other web site (I've been participating on Usenet since 1985). This group
> > has been around for well over a decade (that's how long I've been
> > participating and there are several here that were around long before I). I
> > don't want to discourage you from particpating but it's not wise to jump
> > into a group that's been around for a long time and dictate to those that
> > have been partipating in it for many years how to use the group.
>
> How does one add keywords to a Usenet group? It must be possible,
> because I see (some) group descriptions in my newsreader.
I'm not sure what 'adding keywords to a Usenet group' even means.
There are some places in different websites and newsreaders where
there is a description of the newsgroup, but those are external
things, like wrapping paper. The group itself doesn't have a structure
that would have keywords, etc. Your newsreader is google.groups, so
you are seeing the web interface that Google puts on Usenet. THEY
provide a description of the group, but if someone is accessing
through some other medium or even another website, they won't see the
same descriptions.
Try putting 'rec.boats.paddle' into google. You'll get hit after hit,
all describing the newsgroup, but none of them will be the actual
newsgroup itself; you need a newsreader to access the group. Each of
these different newsreaders will have their own description of what
the group is, does, discusses, etc. Each of them will enable you to
post messages, but none of them are THE place where the messages are
posted.
HTH
BTW: Moby--don't stop posting on this thread. This is an excellent way
to learn some Usenet etiquette and meet the various folks who hang out
here. This is a good forum to ask all sorts of silly questions, like
"What does 'HTH' and 'BTW' mean?"
--riverman
|
| |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 08:52:46
From: Moby Dick
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
On Feb 12, 8:19 am, Wilko <look...@my.sig > wrote:
> Moby Dick wrote:
> > On Feb 11, 9:56 pm, "Moby Dick" <Dick.Roches...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Feb 11, 6:26 pm, John Fereira <j...@cornell.edu> wrote:> "Moby Dick" <Dick.Roches...@gmail.com> wrote in news:1171238268.607939.4800
> >>> @h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
> >> I'm dictating anything. I was responding to your condescending tone.
> >> Now, I think I see why membership is down.
> > Wow. I must have stepped on some nerves. I use Google and I used
> > keywords to find this group. If usenet doens't support that, then it
> > must be primitive. Furthermore, Google asked me to "subscribe" hence
> > my notion of membership.
>
> Usenet is indeed primitive, in some respects, in that it existed and was
> very popular way *before* the world wide web and serch machines like
> Google became popular. Google Groups happens to have a big archive of
> usenet posts over the years (depending upon which group you look at),
> but it is in no way the only (or the best) way to participate in
> newsgroups. Also, just because you use Google Groups to post in this
> group doesn't mean that you need a Google user ID to post in newsgroups
> or participate in usenet.
>
> On the other hand, newsgroups are seeing a revival through the binary
> newsgroups, because a lot of illegal software, movies and music is
> posted there nowadays. So primitive is a relative term in this respect.
>
>
>
> > I have no idea what "top posting" is. Am I doing that?
>
> It's posting above the text of the ones you are replying to... and yep,
> you do that.
>
> > In my own defense, I thought I was being helpful. The thread was
> > bemoaning the lack of postings. I observed that perhaps the group
> > needed more members and suggested two possible ways to do that *which
> > apparently is not allowed unless you've been in the group "since
> > 1985."
>
> The amount of posts on this newsgroup have been on the decline since a
> couple of nasty individuals decided to turn this newsgroup into their
> private playground, with them basically being the local bully. Since
> newsgroups aren't moderated and the basic "rules" of netiquette aren't
> being enforced, it's pretty easy for those who want to damage a
> community to wreak havoc here. Since many other forums outside usenet do
> provide moderators, admins or whatever they are called, this kind of
> behaviour is pretty rare there in comparison to usenet, which is part of
> the reason why so many people moved from usenet groups to other forums.
> So yes, there may be some nostalgia involved, but by and large, this
> newsgroup still has some helpful individuals hanging around on it, some
> of which have met in real life and some of which are even friends.
>
> > I am truely a newbie. I don't own a kayak but would like to. That's
> > why my other postings. My wife and I kayaked on our last vacation. We
> > rented.
>
> Everyone started out as a newbie once... :-)
>
> Try to see a community for what it is, and if you are willing to help it
> change, participate.
>
> Imagine walking into a pub for the first time, and yelling from the
> doorway: hey, why aren't your seats pink, why don't the barmen stand in
> front of the bar and shouldn't you have a sign outside that says
> "welcome to men and women, truckers, bikers, motorists, those with or
> without a job, anyone with or without a hobby and people with and
> without disabilities" instead of "highway 99 pub"?
> On top of that, you call the establishment a bit primitive since they
> don't serve fine wines and the toilets are missing seats...
>
> Now imagine the response from some of the bikers or truckers in there,
> who have been coming there for decades, after hearing you say that. :-)
>
> --
> Wilko van den Bergh wilko<a t)dse(d o t>nl
> Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
> ---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---http://kayaker.nl/
Thanks for the explanation. This is my first time NOT top-posting
which I think makes it harder to read from Google groups but here
goes...
I did not intend to be a troublemaker. Sorry if I was/am perceived as
such.
I like your metaphor but I think it changes a little bit from my point
of view. I think your metaphor should be.....
Imagine walking into a pub for the first time, and sitting down to
have a drink when you overhear the few patrons there start complaining
that not enough people come into the bar anymore or, at least, they
don't want to converse like they used to. Wanting to become part of
the group, I say that the bar owner should put up a sign and do a
little advertising since that's what other bars do. Then thay say I
have no right to criticise since I haven't ever been in the bar and
they've been patrons since the dinosaur age. Hmmm. Ok I'll shut up and
I'll also probably not ever come back.
Cheers.
BTW, I think we've beaten this to a pulp. I don't intend to add to
this thread anymore (unless severely provoked).
|
| | |
Date: 14 Jul 2007 20:17:40
From: Matt Clara
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
"Moby Dick" <Dick.Rochester@gmail.com > wrote in message
news:1171299166.382578.69260@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 12, 8:19 am, Wilko <look...@my.sig> wrote:
>> Moby Dick wrote:
>> > On Feb 11, 9:56 pm, "Moby Dick" <Dick.Roches...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> On Feb 11, 6:26 pm, John Fereira <j...@cornell.edu> wrote:> "Moby
>> >> Dick" <Dick.Roches...@gmail.com> wrote in news:1171238268.607939.4800
>> >>> @h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
>> >> I'm dictating anything. I was responding to your condescending tone.
>> >> Now, I think I see why membership is down.
>> > Wow. I must have stepped on some nerves. I use Google and I used
>> > keywords to find this group. If usenet doens't support that, then it
>> > must be primitive. Furthermore, Google asked me to "subscribe" hence
>> > my notion of membership.
>>
>> Usenet is indeed primitive, in some respects, in that it existed and was
>> very popular way *before* the world wide web and serch machines like
>> Google became popular. Google Groups happens to have a big archive of
>> usenet posts over the years (depending upon which group you look at),
>> but it is in no way the only (or the best) way to participate in
>> newsgroups. Also, just because you use Google Groups to post in this
>> group doesn't mean that you need a Google user ID to post in newsgroups
>> or participate in usenet.
>>
>> On the other hand, newsgroups are seeing a revival through the binary
>> newsgroups, because a lot of illegal software, movies and music is
>> posted there nowadays. So primitive is a relative term in this respect.
>>
>>
>>
>> > I have no idea what "top posting" is. Am I doing that?
>>
>> It's posting above the text of the ones you are replying to... and yep,
>> you do that.
>>
>> > In my own defense, I thought I was being helpful. The thread was
>> > bemoaning the lack of postings. I observed that perhaps the group
>> > needed more members and suggested two possible ways to do that *which
>> > apparently is not allowed unless you've been in the group "since
>> > 1985."
>>
>> The amount of posts on this newsgroup have been on the decline since a
>> couple of nasty individuals decided to turn this newsgroup into their
>> private playground, with them basically being the local bully. Since
>> newsgroups aren't moderated and the basic "rules" of netiquette aren't
>> being enforced, it's pretty easy for those who want to damage a
>> community to wreak havoc here. Since many other forums outside usenet do
>> provide moderators, admins or whatever they are called, this kind of
>> behaviour is pretty rare there in comparison to usenet, which is part of
>> the reason why so many people moved from usenet groups to other forums.
>> So yes, there may be some nostalgia involved, but by and large, this
>> newsgroup still has some helpful individuals hanging around on it, some
>> of which have met in real life and some of which are even friends.
>>
>> > I am truely a newbie. I don't own a kayak but would like to. That's
>> > why my other postings. My wife and I kayaked on our last vacation. We
>> > rented.
>>
>> Everyone started out as a newbie once... :-)
>>
>> Try to see a community for what it is, and if you are willing to help it
>> change, participate.
>>
>> Imagine walking into a pub for the first time, and yelling from the
>> doorway: hey, why aren't your seats pink, why don't the barmen stand in
>> front of the bar and shouldn't you have a sign outside that says
>> "welcome to men and women, truckers, bikers, motorists, those with or
>> without a job, anyone with or without a hobby and people with and
>> without disabilities" instead of "highway 99 pub"?
>> On top of that, you call the establishment a bit primitive since they
>> don't serve fine wines and the toilets are missing seats...
>>
>> Now imagine the response from some of the bikers or truckers in there,
>> who have been coming there for decades, after hearing you say that. :-)
>>
>> --
>> Wilko van den Bergh wilko<a t)dse(d o t>nl
>> Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
>> ---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the
>> limitations.---http://kayaker.nl/
>
> Thanks for the explanation. This is my first time NOT top-posting
> which I think makes it harder to read from Google groups but here
> goes...
>
> I did not intend to be a troublemaker. Sorry if I was/am perceived as
> such.
>
> I like your metaphor but I think it changes a little bit from my point
> of view. I think your metaphor should be.....
>
> Imagine walking into a pub for the first time, and sitting down to
> have a drink when you overhear the few patrons there start complaining
> that not enough people come into the bar anymore or, at least, they
> don't want to converse like they used to. Wanting to become part of
> the group, I say that the bar owner should put up a sign and do a
> little advertising since that's what other bars do. Then thay say I
> have no right to criticise since I haven't ever been in the bar and
> they've been patrons since the dinosaur age. Hmmm. Ok I'll shut up and
> I'll also probably not ever come back.
>
Your suggestions to improve membership were, unlike those in your bar
analogy, not possible. You cannot assign key words to usenet newsgroup.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet
PS. you do need to grow a thicker skin to suffer usenet long.
PPS. I've reread this entire thread and I don't see where anyone has been
anything but patient with you. It's you who've been entirely defensive and
churlish over the fact that your impossible suggestions weren't well
received--imagine if you wandered into a pub for the first time, and started
suggesting shit that made no sense...
--
www.mattclara.com
|
| |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 06:56:16
From: Moby Dick
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
On Feb 11, 9:56 pm, "Moby Dick" <Dick.Roches...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Feb 11, 6:26 pm, John Fereira <j...@cornell.edu> wrote:> "Moby Dick" <Dick.Roches...@gmail.com> wrote in news:1171238268.607939.4800
> > @h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
>
> I'm dictating anything. I was responding to your condescending tone.
> Now, I think I see why membership is down.
Wow. I must have stepped on some nerves. I use Google and I used
keywords to find this group. If usenet doens't support that, then it
must be primitive. Furthermore, Google asked me to "subscribe" hence
my notion of membership.
I have no idea what "top posting" is. Am I doing that?
In my own defense, I thought I was being helpful. The thread was
bemoaning the lack of postings. I observed that perhaps the group
needed more members and suggested two possible ways to do that *which
apparently is not allowed unless you've been in the group "since
1985."
I am truely a newbie. I don't own a kayak but would like to. That's
why my other postings. My wife and I kayaked on our last vacation. We
rented.
>
> > > Thanks Mike. If the group is for more than kayakers (and that's fine),
> > > then use all the dang keywords: "kayaking", "canoing", "paddling".
> > > That way people searching for any of the above will stumble upon the
> > > group.
>
> > This group isn't a Google group or Yahoo group in the same sense that you
> > may be familiar with. It's a usenet newsgroup and doesn't have any
> > associated keywords. Usenet was around long before Google or Yahoe or any
> > other web site (I've been participating on Usenet since 1985). This group
> > has been around for well over a decade (that's how long I've been
> > participating and there are several here that were around long before I). I
> > don't want to discourage you from particpating but it's not wise to jump
> > into a group that's been around for a long time and dictate to those that
> > have been partipating in it for many years how to use the group.
|
| | |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 16:19:23
From: Wilko
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
Moby Dick wrote:
> On Feb 11, 9:56 pm, "Moby Dick" <Dick.Roches...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Feb 11, 6:26 pm, John Fereira <j...@cornell.edu> wrote:> "Moby Dick" <Dick.Roches...@gmail.com> wrote in news:1171238268.607939.4800
>>> @h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
>> I'm dictating anything. I was responding to your condescending tone.
>> Now, I think I see why membership is down.
> Wow. I must have stepped on some nerves. I use Google and I used
> keywords to find this group. If usenet doens't support that, then it
> must be primitive. Furthermore, Google asked me to "subscribe" hence
> my notion of membership.
Usenet is indeed primitive, in some respects, in that it existed and was
very popular way *before* the world wide web and serch machines like
Google became popular. Google Groups happens to have a big archive of
usenet posts over the years (depending upon which group you look at),
but it is in no way the only (or the best) way to participate in
newsgroups. Also, just because you use Google Groups to post in this
group doesn't mean that you need a Google user ID to post in newsgroups
or participate in usenet.
On the other hand, newsgroups are seeing a revival through the binary
newsgroups, because a lot of illegal software, movies and music is
posted there nowadays. So primitive is a relative term in this respect.
>
> I have no idea what "top posting" is. Am I doing that?
It's posting above the text of the ones you are replying to... and yep,
you do that.
> In my own defense, I thought I was being helpful. The thread was
> bemoaning the lack of postings. I observed that perhaps the group
> needed more members and suggested two possible ways to do that *which
> apparently is not allowed unless you've been in the group "since
> 1985."
The amount of posts on this newsgroup have been on the decline since a
couple of nasty individuals decided to turn this newsgroup into their
private playground, with them basically being the local bully. Since
newsgroups aren't moderated and the basic "rules" of netiquette aren't
being enforced, it's pretty easy for those who want to damage a
community to wreak havoc here. Since many other forums outside usenet do
provide moderators, admins or whatever they are called, this kind of
behaviour is pretty rare there in comparison to usenet, which is part of
the reason why so many people moved from usenet groups to other forums.
So yes, there may be some nostalgia involved, but by and large, this
newsgroup still has some helpful individuals hanging around on it, some
of which have met in real life and some of which are even friends.
> I am truely a newbie. I don't own a kayak but would like to. That's
> why my other postings. My wife and I kayaked on our last vacation. We
> rented.
Everyone started out as a newbie once... :-)
Try to see a community for what it is, and if you are willing to help it
change, participate.
Imagine walking into a pub for the first time, and yelling from the
doorway: hey, why aren't your seats pink, why don't the barmen stand in
front of the bar and shouldn't you have a sign outside that says
"welcome to men and women, truckers, bikers, motorists, those with or
without a job, anyone with or without a hobby and people with and
without disabilities" instead of "highway 99 pub"?
On top of that, you call the establishment a bit primitive since they
don't serve fine wines and the toilets are missing seats...
Now imagine the response from some of the bikers or truckers in there,
who have been coming there for decades, after hearing you say that. :-)
--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko<a t)dse(d o t >nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/
|
| |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 04:33:59
From: riverman
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
On Feb 12, 12:56 pm, "Moby Dick" <Dick.Roches...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Feb 11, 6:26 pm, John Fereira <j...@cornell.edu> wrote:> "Moby Dick" <Dick.Roches...@gmail.com> wrote in news:1171238268.607939.4800
> > @h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
>
> I'm dictating anything. I was responding to your condescending tone.
> Now, I think I see why membership is down.
Hee hee. Welcome to Usenet....a thick skin is usually pretty helpful.
Mostly because sometimes things sound worse than they are intended.
There are a host of traditions on Usenet, probably because of human
nature (when people get together, they seem to make rules), and
someone new to the medium often doesn't realize that many many many
other people have trodden that way before. John wasn't being
condescending (we get people here who ARE condescending, and you can
really tell the difference), but was mentioning that the newsgroup
doesn't have any 'keywords' per se. When people do a search of the
group, they are only getting hits on words that have been included in
people's posts. AFAIK (as far as I know), there isn't anywhere to even
PUT 'keywords'.
There IS a FAQ somewhere, and I'm sure it mentions kayaks, etc. Can
anyone provide the link?
While we're on the subject of rules and FAQs, top-posting is
discouraged also. Something to do with how the messages 'read' if you
want to look through the leading-in conversation. And also while we're
at it, I'm risking the danger of being labeled a 'net nanny' for
pointing this out....mea culpa.
Meanwhile, welcome aboard. Where do you paddle?
--riverman
|
| |
Date: 11 Feb 2007 20:56:12
From: Moby Dick
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
On Feb 11, 6:26 pm, John Fereira <j...@cornell.edu > wrote:
> "Moby Dick" <Dick.Roches...@gmail.com> wrote in news:1171238268.607939.4800
> @h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
>
I'm dictating anything. I was responding to your condescending tone.
Now, I think I see why membership is down.
> > Thanks Mike. If the group is for more than kayakers (and that's fine),
> > then use all the dang keywords: "kayaking", "canoing", "paddling".
> > That way people searching for any of the above will stumble upon the
> > group.
>
> This group isn't a Google group or Yahoo group in the same sense that you
> may be familiar with. It's a usenet newsgroup and doesn't have any
> associated keywords. Usenet was around long before Google or Yahoe or any
> other web site (I've been participating on Usenet since 1985). This group
> has been around for well over a decade (that's how long I've been
> participating and there are several here that were around long before I). I
> don't want to discourage you from particpating but it's not wise to jump
> into a group that's been around for a long time and dictate to those that
> have been partipating in it for many years how to use the group.
|
| | |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 12:16:20
From: John Fereira
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
"Moby Dick" <Dick.Rochester@gmail.com > wrote in
news:1171256172.937166.230590@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
> On Feb 11, 6:26 pm, John Fereira <j...@cornell.edu> wrote:
>> "Moby Dick" <Dick.Roches...@gmail.com> wrote in
>> news:1171238268.607939.4800 @h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
>>
> I'm dictating anything. I was responding to your condescending tone.
> Now, I think I see why membership is down.
There is no membership involved. Rec.boats.paddle is an open forum that can
be accessed numerous ways. Many use a usenet newsreader application such as
Forte free agent, Xnews, and for the really old school types, a program
called "trn". Google groups and Yahoo groups merely provide web based front
ends to the group and may provide keyword searching capabilities but all
they're really searching is the content of the posts. As is the case for
most usenet groups the content focus is defined by a charter which is voted
on when the group is initially proposed. In this case, the charter
describes a group for discussion of topics related to boats that can be
paddled, though there have been past discussions about whitewater rafting
(with uses oars rather than paddles), and the use of sails on kayaks. As is
the case for most usenet groups, topics do appear or drift outside the
scope of the original charter but most try to relate their content, even if
tangentially to paddling boats. To confuse things even more, in the UK they
call kayaks a "canoe" and when we start talking about traditional kayaking
alternative spellings appear (Qajaq) or specific types of kayaks (Baidarka)
might show up. Thus, a thread on the merits of a bifurcated bow on a
Baidarka might never contain the words kayak or canoe but it is very much
about paddling a kayak.
As I said, I (nor I doubt) anyone else here has any intention of
discouraging you or anyone else from participating in this group. The
questions that you ask regarding the materials used for kayaks are good ones
and at least a couple of people have taken the time to provide answers.
There is a vast amount of knowledge available here about kayaks, canoes, and
related topics and, for the most part, the atmosphere is quite civil. From
time to time, people do show up that only seem to want to be argumentative
and disruptive, but that's the nature of usenet.
>
>> > Thanks Mike. If the group is for more than kayakers (and that's
>> > fine), then use all the dang keywords: "kayaking", "canoing",
>> > "paddling". That way people searching for any of the above will
>> > stumble upon the group.
>>
>> This group isn't a Google group or Yahoo group in the same sense that
>> you may be familiar with. It's a usenet newsgroup and doesn't have
>> any associated keywords. Usenet was around long before Google or
>> Yahoe or any other web site (I've been participating on Usenet since
>> 1985). This group has been around for well over a decade (that's how
>> long I've been participating and there are several here that were
>> around long before I). I don't want to discourage you from
>> particpating but it's not wise to jump into a group that's been around
>> for a long time and dictate to those that have been partipating in it
>> for many years how to use the group.
>
>
|
| | |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 11:11:55
From: Wilko
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
Moby Dick wrote:
> On Feb 11, 6:26 pm, John Fereira <j...@cornell.edu> wrote:
>> "Moby Dick" <Dick.Roches...@gmail.com> wrote in news:1171238268.607939.4800
>> @h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
>>
> I'm dictating anything. I was responding to your condescending tone.
> Now, I think I see why membership is down.
John was simply reacting to your approach and lack of relevant knwoledge
about how usenet functions. Read up a bit about what newsgroups are and
what is involved in forming them before coming on and suggesting things
that aren't relevant or appropriate. Also, RBP has been around for a
long time, and the reasons you gave for wanting to change the name
aren't going to change the usenet conventions that it adheres to.
--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko<a t)dse(d o t >nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/
|
| |
Date: 11 Feb 2007 15:57:48
From: Moby Dick
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
Thanks Mike. If the group is for more than kayakers (and that's fine),
then use all the dang keywords: "kayaking", "canoing", "paddling".
That way people searching for any of the above will stumble upon the
group.
On Feb 11, 3:14 pm, Michael Daly <MichaelD...@foo.bar > wrote:
> Moby Dick wrote:
> > Finally, I notice that the group desciption doesn't contain the word
> > "kayak." If google searches use the description, then, perhaps someone
> > should add it.
>
> It doesn't contain the word "kayak" because it is not exclusively about
> kayaking - it is a paddling newsgroup and includes canoeists and other
> paddlers.
>
> The main reasons for it's demise over time have largely gone - Uncle
> Timmy is no longer an issue (his health isn't what would be required to
> post here) and the Snot Weiner seems to have trucked off for other
> venues to annoy. I can't think of a reason for the paddlers to migrate
> back here.
>
> Mike
|
| | |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 01:26:16
From: John Fereira
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
"Moby Dick" <Dick.Rochester@gmail.com > wrote in news:1171238268.607939.4800
@h3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:
> Thanks Mike. If the group is for more than kayakers (and that's fine),
> then use all the dang keywords: "kayaking", "canoing", "paddling".
> That way people searching for any of the above will stumble upon the
> group.
This group isn't a Google group or Yahoo group in the same sense that you
may be familiar with. It's a usenet newsgroup and doesn't have any
associated keywords. Usenet was around long before Google or Yahoe or any
other web site (I've been participating on Usenet since 1985). This group
has been around for well over a decade (that's how long I've been
participating and there are several here that were around long before I). I
don't want to discourage you from particpating but it's not wise to jump
into a group that's been around for a long time and dictate to those that
have been partipating in it for many years how to use the group.
|
| | | |
Date: 12 Feb 2007 10:40:02
From: Bill Tuthill
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
John Fereira <jaf30@cornell.edu > wrote:
>
>> Thanks Mike. If the group is for more than kayakers (and that's fine),
>> then use all the dang keywords: "kayaking", "canoing", "paddling".
>> That way people searching for any of the above stumble upon the group.
>
> This group isn't a Google group or Yahoo group in the same sense that you
> may be familiar with. It's a usenet newsgroup and doesn't have any
> associated keywords. Usenet was around long before Google or Yahoe or any
> other web site (I've been participating on Usenet since 1985). This group
> has been around for well over a decade (that's how long I've been
> participating and there are several here that were around long before I). I
> don't want to discourage you from particpating but it's not wise to jump
> into a group that's been around for a long time and dictate to those that
> have been partipating in it for many years how to use the group.
How does one add keywords to a Usenet group? It must be possible,
because I see (some) group descriptions in my newsreader.
|
| |
Date: 11 Feb 2007 14:30:02
From: Oci-One Kanubi
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
On Feb 11, 5:14 pm, Michael Daly <MichaelD...@foo.bar > wrote:
> Moby Dick wrote:
> > Finally, I notice that the group desciption doesn't contain the word
> > "kayak." If google searches use the description, then, perhaps someone
> > should add it.
>
> It doesn't contain the word "kayak" because it is not exclusively about
> kayaking - it is a paddling newsgroup and includes canoeists and other
> paddlers.
>
> The main reasons for it's demise over time have largely gone - Uncle
> Timmy is no longer an issue (his health isn't what would be required to
> post here) and the Snot Weiner seems to have trucked off for other
> venues to annoy. I can't think of a reason for the paddlers to migrate
> back here.
>
> Mike
Hi Michael. Don't forget The Burning Man. I think Njall proboably
did as much damage to r.b.p as Sponson-boy did.
I was just reading a profile of Rocky Contos in the American
Whitewater journal. It brought back memories of a vibrant and useful
r.b.p, and then it actually referred to Rockies posts of his exploits
during the halcyon years of r.b.p in the late '90s. Worth a read if
you have access to a copy.
-Richard, His Kanubic Travesty
--
======================================================================
Richard Hopley Winston-Salem, NC, USA
Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll
rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net
OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters
rhopley[at]wfubmc[dot]edu
======================================================================
|
| |
Date: 11 Feb 2007 12:24:03
From: Moby Dick
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
Excuse me if this post apears twice. I posted over an hour ago and th
first is not showing up....So again:
I think this group is approprately active for 300-400 memebers. Has
there been a loss of memebership recently?
Also, I moderate a Yahoo! group called "Signal and Image Processing."
I occasionally do a memeberhsip drive by posting to related groups
Perhaps someone in this group should do that. I'm a newbie so I think
one of the senior members should do that.
Finally, I notice that the group desciption doesn't contain the word
"kayak." If google searches use the description, then, perhaps someone
should add it.
On Feb 8, 8:19 pm, "JohnKuthe" <johnku...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Feb 8, 2:44 pm, "Fred Klingener" <gigabitbuc...@brockeng.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Gets real quiet here, when there's no water running.
>
> > Fred
>
> It's real quiet here even when there is water running!
>
> Compared to what RBP was before the Web, anyway!! :-( RBP is a mere
> shell of it's former pre-WWW existence. :-(
>
> John Kuthe...
|
| | |
Date: 11 Feb 2007 17:14:36
From: Michael Daly
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
Moby Dick wrote:
> Finally, I notice that the group desciption doesn't contain the word
> "kayak." If google searches use the description, then, perhaps someone
> should add it.
It doesn't contain the word "kayak" because it is not exclusively about
kayaking - it is a paddling newsgroup and includes canoeists and other
paddlers.
The main reasons for it's demise over time have largely gone - Uncle
Timmy is no longer an issue (his health isn't what would be required to
post here) and the Snot Weiner seems to have trucked off for other
venues to annoy. I can't think of a reason for the paddlers to migrate
back here.
Mike
|
| |
Date: 09 Feb 2007 01:43:01
From: RkyMtnHootOwl
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
On Feb 8, 10:25 pm, "riverman" <myronb...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Feb 9, 1:20 pm, "riverman" <myronb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Feb 9, 11:19 am, "JohnKuthe" <johnku...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On Feb 8, 2:44 pm, "Fred Klingener" <gigabitbuc...@brockeng.com>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > Gets real quiet here, when there's no water running.
>
> > > > Fred
>
> > > It's real quiet here even when there is water running!
>
> > > Compared to what RBP was before the Web, anyway!! :-( RBP is a mere
> > > shell of it's former pre-WWW existence. :-(
>
> > > John Kuthe...
>
> > Yeah. I was looking at this the other day:http://groups.google.com/group/rec.boats.paddle/about
>
> > Wow. Them was the days.
>
> > BTW, anyone up for a Mongolia canoe trip in June?
>
> > --riverman
>
> In fact, with this single reply to myself, I am now the MOST PROLIFIC
> POSTER THIS MONTH......with four posts! :-(
>
> --riverman- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Hi riverman, I was just driftin around, and thought I would check out
the rbp. Haven't been here for a long time, so just thought I would
say hi.
Actually thought of you earlier when I read news of tourist in Kenya
being shot, and thought of when you were over there. Hope you are
doing well where ever you are boating and fishing these days.
Good day, Rkymtnhootowl
|
| |
Date: 08 Feb 2007 21:25:51
From: riverman
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
On Feb 9, 1:20 pm, "riverman" <myronb...@yahoo.com > wrote:
> On Feb 9, 11:19 am, "JohnKuthe" <johnku...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > On Feb 8, 2:44 pm, "Fred Klingener" <gigabitbuc...@brockeng.com>
> > wrote:
>
> > > Gets real quiet here, when there's no water running.
>
> > > Fred
>
> > It's real quiet here even when there is water running!
>
> > Compared to what RBP was before the Web, anyway!! :-( RBP is a mere
> > shell of it's former pre-WWW existence. :-(
>
> > John Kuthe...
>
> Yeah. I was looking at this the other day:http://groups.google.com/group/rec.boats.paddle/about
>
> Wow. Them was the days.
>
> BTW, anyone up for a Mongolia canoe trip in June?
>
> --riverman
In fact, with this single reply to myself, I am now the MOST PROLIFIC
POSTER THIS MONTH......with four posts! :-(
--riverman
|
| | |
Date: 09 Feb 2007 10:34:31
From: Wilko
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
riverman wrote:
> On Feb 9, 1:20 pm, "riverman" <myronb...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On Feb 9, 11:19 am, "JohnKuthe" <johnku...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Feb 8, 2:44 pm, "Fred Klingener" <gigabitbuc...@brockeng.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> Gets real quiet here, when there's no water running.
>>>> Fred
>>> It's real quiet here even when there is water running!
>>> Compared to what RBP was before the Web, anyway!! :-( RBP is a mere
>>> shell of it's former pre-WWW existence. :-(
>>> John Kuthe...
>> Yeah. I was looking at this the other day:http://groups.google.com/group/rec.boats.paddle/about
>>
>> Wow. Them was the days.
>>
>> BTW, anyone up for a Mongolia canoe trip in June?
>>
>> --riverman
>
> In fact, with this single reply to myself, I am now the MOST PROLIFIC
> POSTER THIS MONTH......with four posts! :-(
>
> --riverman
>
Hmmm, there were over 6000 posts in the month of January 1999 alone.
That's of course at the height of RBP, just after Scott died. I wonder
how many posts Boatertalk gets every month...
--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko<a t)dse(d o t >nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/
|
| |
Date: 08 Feb 2007 21:20:00
From: riverman
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
On Feb 9, 11:19 am, "JohnKuthe" <johnku...@gmail.com > wrote:
> On Feb 8, 2:44 pm, "Fred Klingener" <gigabitbuc...@brockeng.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Gets real quiet here, when there's no water running.
>
> > Fred
>
> It's real quiet here even when there is water running!
>
> Compared to what RBP was before the Web, anyway!! :-( RBP is a mere
> shell of it's former pre-WWW existence. :-(
>
> John Kuthe...
Yeah. I was looking at this the other day:
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.boats.paddle/about
Wow. Them was the days.
BTW, anyone up for a Mongolia canoe trip in June?
--riverman
|
| |
Date: 08 Feb 2007 19:19:44
From: JohnKuthe
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
On Feb 8, 2:44 pm, "Fred Klingener" <gigabitbuc...@brockeng.com >
wrote:
> Gets real quiet here, when there's no water running.
>
> Fred
It's real quiet here even when there is water running!
Compared to what RBP was before the Web, anyway!! :-( RBP is a mere
shell of it's former pre-WWW existence. :-(
John Kuthe...
|
| | |
Date: 09 Feb 2007 09:50:59
From: Bill Tuthill
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
JohnKuthe <johnkuthe@gmail.com > wrote:
>
> It's real quiet here even when there is water running!
We ran the Illinois river (SW Oregon) over New Year's. I would've
written a trip report but didn't have time. On New Year's Eve,
we managed to stay up until 12 midnight east coast time! Which was
9:00 Pacific. The moon was intermittenly hiding behind clouds,
but our backs got cold even with a big fire.
> Compared to what RBP was before the Web, anyway!! :-(
> RBP is a mere shell of it's former pre-WWW existence. :-(
What do you want to talk about? I'm interested in a discussion
of vehicles with good fuel economy that can carry a lot of gear.
I'm always a little baffled how the BoaterTalkers find so many topics.
|
| | | |
Date: 16 Mar 2007 17:42:31
From: Matt Clara
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
"Bill Tuthill" <ccreekin@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:45ccb483@news.meer.net...
> JohnKuthe <johnkuthe@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> It's real quiet here even when there is water running!
>
> We ran the Illinois river (SW Oregon) over New Year's. I would've
> written a trip report but didn't have time. On New Year's Eve,
> we managed to stay up until 12 midnight east coast time! Which was
> 9:00 Pacific. The moon was intermittenly hiding behind clouds,
> but our backs got cold even with a big fire.
>
>> Compared to what RBP was before the Web, anyway!! :-(
>> RBP is a mere shell of it's former pre-WWW existence. :-(
>
> What do you want to talk about? I'm interested in a discussion
> of vehicles with good fuel economy that can carry a lot of gear.
>
I suppose you'd have to define "a lot," because a car may not be big enough
and you need an SUV, etc., but if a car will do, I'd recommend a Volkswagen
Passat TDI stationwagon. They're full sized cars and the TDI with manual
transmission gets upwards of fifty miles to the gallon. You can drive a
Passat from Michigan to Florida and back on a tank and a half of fuel. The
engines will last 250,000 miles and more if treated properly. The rest of
the car will fall apart around it, but that engine'll just keep on goin...
I have a Jetta TDI, and it's too small. The Jetta wagon would have been a
better choice.
--
www.mattclara.com
|
| | | | |
Date: 12 Apr 2007 11:22:22
From: Bill Tuthill
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
Matt Clara <hey.wood.y@buzz.off > wrote:
>>
>> What do you want to talk about? I'm interested in a discussion
>> of vehicles with good fuel economy that can carry a lot of gear.
>>
> I suppose you'd have to define "a lot," because a car may not be big enough
> and you need an SUV, etc., but if a car will do, I'd recommend a Volkswagen
> Passat TDI stationwagon. They're full sized cars and the TDI with manual
> transmission gets upwards of fifty miles to the gallon. You can drive a
> Passat from Michigan to Florida and back on a tank and a half of fuel. The
> engines will last 250,000 miles and more if treated properly. The rest of
> the car will fall apart around it, but that engine'll just keep on goin...
> I have a Jetta TDI, and it's too small. The Jetta wagon would have been a
> better choice.
TDI means diesel, right? Have you experimented with biodiesel?
Currently I have a Trooper that never gets over 21 mpg. If I needed to
replace it before the 2008 Highlander Hybrid appears, I guess my choice
would be the Ford Escape hybrid or Toyota RAV4, both 29 mpg.
Jetta wagon isn't really big enough for rafting.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 14 Jul 2007 11:32:16
From: Matt Clara
Subject: Re: real quiet
|
"Bill Tuthill" <ccreekin@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:461e78de@news.meer.net...
> Matt Clara <hey.wood.y@buzz.off> wrote:
>>>
>>> What do you want to talk about? I'm interested in a discussion
>>> of vehicles with good fuel economy that can carry a lot of gear.
>>>
>> I suppose you'd have to define "a lot," because a car may not be b |
|
