| |
Main
Date: 04 Aug 2006 03:42:41
From: jeslawrence
Subject: origins of eskimo roll
|
Im researching origins of the eskimo roll. Somewhere I heard that the
original (Greenland kayak) roll was longitudinal and not around the
latitudinal axis (i.e. simple capsize and immediate stroke upright with
paddle, harpoon, throwstick, or hands); in a sea that was freezing, a `wet'
exit could be quickly fatal, even if the paddler/hunter could swim which
many of them could not ... dealing - in a slender, unstable skinboat into
which you were stitched - with recalcitrant (often large) prey unwilling to
succumb meant that the hunter had to be athletic and highly maneuverable in
his craft...so what we call a `roll' today was just a simple recovery stroke
accomplished in a rich variety of ways... the original roll (I think) was in
response to the mini-tsunami that occurred when chunks of ice dropped off at
the head of the fjord... one would turn the kayak roughly 45 degrees to the
oncoming wave, capsize just before it hit, then use the wave to flip the
boat more or less longitudinally upright... Im not sure if anyone has ever
done this in today's world (since a 17` kayak is treacherous in shallow
surf, and it is difficult to arrange a mini-tsunami here around our lakes
and rivers), or even if this account is true... does anyone have
ideas/evidence? thanks JESL
|
|
| |
Date: 07 Aug 2006 12:24:13
From: James
Subject: Re: origins of eskimo roll
|
>Im researching origins of the eskimo roll. Somewhere I heard that the
>original (Greenland kayak) roll was longitudinal and not around the
>latitudinal axis
There are some kayak history articles here that might help -
http://www.kayak-escape.com/kayak-articles.htm
HTH
James
|
| |
Date: 07 Aug 2006 18:55:18
From: Rick
Subject: Re: origins of eskimo roll
|
...stuff deleted
> the original roll (I think) was in
> response to the mini-tsunami that occurred when chunks of ice dropped off
> at
> the head of the fjord... one would turn the kayak roughly 45 degrees to
> the
> oncoming wave, capsize just before it hit, then use the wave to flip the
> boat more or less longitudinally upright... Im not sure if anyone has ever
> done this in today's world (since a 17` kayak is treacherous in shallow
> surf, and it is difficult to arrange a mini-tsunami here around our lakes
> and rivers), or even if this account is true... does anyone have
> ideas/evidence? thanks JESL
>
There is no documentation of any type supporting this premise. Certainly,
these events did happen, but a lot of the kayaking peoples spent much of
their time in waters where this was the norm, not the exception. To suggest
that it was a rare, or uncommon event, is to misunderstand how dynamic the
ice, either coastal or on open water, really is, especially in late spring.
I did read in Sea Kayaker an account of a European observer who reported
that, during surf exits and entries, Greenlanders would often roll their
boats on the face of large waves and recover after the wave passed, but
there was nothing in the report as to how this was executed. Most likely, in
a very narrow boat, it would be quite easy to plant the blade at the bow and
simply perform a hip snap to right the boat as one pulled. Most likely, this
is how most rolls were accomplished. For comfort and touring, few modern
boats are as tippy as this and require more technique to roll upright.
There was a documentary called "Baidarka," several years back where they
took an inuit kayak out to test its performance in real conditions. It was
difficult for most who tried to keep the boat upright when stationary, but
when moving, the tester reported that it was a joy to paddle and handled
wonderfully. This design would not sit well with most modern paddlers who
think that getting wet is not what kayaking is all about (poor confused
beings).
Rick
|
| | |
Date: 07 Aug 2006 21:01:13
From: Wilko
Subject: Re: origins of eskimo roll
|
Rick wrote:
>
> I did read in Sea Kayaker an account of a European observer who reported
> that, during surf exits and entries, Greenlanders would often roll their
> boats on the face of large waves and recover after the wave passed, but
> there was nothing in the report as to how this was executed. Most likely, in
> a very narrow boat, it would be quite easy to plant the blade at the bow and
> simply perform a hip snap to right the boat as one pulled. Most likely, this
> is how most rolls were accomplished. For comfort and touring, few modern
> boats are as tippy as this and require more technique to roll upright.
>
> There was a documentary called "Baidarka," several years back where they
> took an inuit kayak out to test its performance in real conditions. It was
> difficult for most who tried to keep the boat upright when stationary, but
> when moving, the tester reported that it was a joy to paddle and handled
> wonderfully. This design would not sit well with most modern paddlers who
> think that getting wet is not what kayaking is all about (poor confused
> beings).
Maybe not with modern sea paddlers, but modern playboaters tend to spend
quite a lot of time in or under water instead of just on it.
--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko<a t)dse(d o t >nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/
|
| | | |
Date: 08 Aug 2006 07:59:43
From: Rick
Subject: Re: origins of eskimo roll
|
...stuff deleted
>> This design would not sit well with most modern paddlers who think that
>> getting wet is not what kayaking is all about (poor confused beings).
>
> Maybe not with modern sea paddlers, but modern playboaters tend to spend
> quite a lot of time in or under water instead of just on it.
>
Wilko,
Since the original poster was commenting upon the history of the roll (which
had nothing to do with play boating, since none of the native paddlers even
imagined a design as radical as the modern river kayak), and I am completely
bent (and you can take that any way you wish) in the direction of sea
kayaking. I was taking a jibe at the sea kayaking population, where the
novice/intermediate sea kayaking population is a bit more casual, in both
skill development and boat handling than ww folk. So don't feel my quip was
aimed in your general direction.
Personally, one of my favorite boats to use was the wettest ride I've ever
experienced in a kayak. The early Solstice (current designs) had such a low
volume bow that it tried to dive, and often succeed, under ripples. Waves
swept the deck more often than not, and the boat was at least 1/2 submarine.
It wasn't as popular as such a sweet handling boat should have been because
most sea kayakers didn't seem to understand the joys of being constantly
spalshed with icy water (go figure). I loved the ride, even in rough seas,
though I think it probably should have been equipped with a mask and
snorkel.
Rick
Rick
|
| | | | |
Date: 08 Aug 2006 10:17:14
From: Wilko
Subject: Re: origins of eskimo roll
|
Rick wrote:
> ...stuff deleted
>>> This design would not sit well with most modern paddlers who think that
>>> getting wet is not what kayaking is all about (poor confused beings).
>> Maybe not with modern sea paddlers, but modern playboaters tend to spend
>> quite a lot of time in or under water instead of just on it.
>>
>
> Wilko,
>
> Since the original poster was commenting upon the history of the roll (which
> had nothing to do with play boating, since none of the native paddlers even
> imagined a design as radical as the modern river kayak), and I am completely
> bent (and you can take that any way you wish) in the direction of sea
> kayaking. I was taking a jibe at the sea kayaking population, where the
> novice/intermediate sea kayaking population is a bit more casual, in both
> skill development and boat handling than ww folk. So don't feel my quip was
> aimed in your general direction.
Don't worry Rick, I didn't take it as that. I was just remarking about
the wetness experienced by other kayakers (with a little wink...),
without taking anything away from your valid points with regard to sea
kayaking.
> Personally, one of my favorite boats to use was the wettest ride I've ever
> experienced in a kayak. The early Solstice (current designs) had such a low
> volume bow that it tried to dive, and often succeed, under ripples. Waves
> swept the deck more often than not, and the boat was at least 1/2 submarine.
> It wasn't as popular as such a sweet handling boat should have been because
> most sea kayakers didn't seem to understand the joys of being constantly
> spalshed with icy water (go figure). I loved the ride, even in rough seas,
> though I think it probably should have been equipped with a mask and
> snorkel.
<big grin > I know that feeling from surfing in the sea surf!
--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko<a t)dse(d o t >nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/
|
| | | |
Date: 07 Aug 2006 16:32:31
From: Grip
Subject: Re: origins of eskimo roll
|
<<Maybe not with modern sea paddlers, but modern playboaters tend to spend
quite a lot of time in or under water instead of just on it. >>
LOL Well Wilko......someone makes money selling "DRIP RINGS" ....but not on
me or anyone I know.
"Wilko" <look_in@my.sig > wrote in message
news:FMSdnbCQmqphEErZnZ2dnUVZ8tydnZ2d@edutel.nl...
> Rick wrote:
> >
> > I did read in Sea Kayaker an account of a European observer who reported
> > that, during surf exits and entries, Greenlanders would often roll their
> > boats on the face of large waves and recover after the wave passed, but
> > there was nothing in the report as to how this was executed. Most
likely, in
> > a very narrow boat, it would be quite easy to plant the blade at the bow
and
> > simply perform a hip snap to right the boat as one pulled. Most likely,
this
> > is how most rolls were accomplished. For comfort and touring, few modern
> > boats are as tippy as this and require more technique to roll upright.
> >
> > There was a documentary called "Baidarka," several years back where they
> > took an inuit kayak out to test its performance in real conditions. It
was
> > difficult for most who tried to keep the boat upright when stationary,
but
> > when moving, the tester reported that it was a joy to paddle and handled
> > wonderfully. This design would not sit well with most modern paddlers
who
> > think that getting wet is not what kayaking is all about (poor confused
> > beings).
>
> >
> --
> Wilko van den Bergh wilko<a t)dse(d o t>nl
> Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
> ---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
> http://kayaker.nl/
|
| | | | |
Date: 07 Aug 2006 22:50:21
From: Wilko
Subject: Re: origins of eskimo roll
|
Grip wrote:
> Wilko wrote:
> <<Maybe not with modern sea paddlers, but modern playboaters tend to spend
> quite a lot of time in or under water instead of just on it.>>
>
>
> LOL Well Wilko......someone makes money selling "DRIP RINGS" ....but not on
> me or anyone I know.
<innocent look > Hey, I have some of those somewhere! :-)
Seriously though, I'm convinced that I lose more energy from cooling
down because I'm hanging upside-down in the water than from moving my
paddle. Boating comes so easily now that I doubt that takes much energy
nowadays.
We spent last week paddling in Slovenia, and I would be exhausted at the
end of a stretch of river, mostly from cooling down when doing stern
squirts, cartwheels or simply flipping when playing and not so much from
using my muscles so much.
--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko<a t)dse(d o t >nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/
|
| | | | | |
Date: 07 Aug 2006 21:51:51
From: Grip
Subject: Re: origins of eskimo roll
|
Me too, but it's such a "good" kind of exhautsion. I'de love to boat OOC
"out of country" sometime. I remember how crystal clear the rivers in older
Prijon catalogs were and how beautiful the rivers.....any idea where tose
were shot?
"Wilko" <look_in@my.sig > wrote in message
news:zJqdnQn_xtsNOkrZnZ2dnUVZ8s6dnZ2d@edutel.nl...
> Grip wrote:
> > Wilko wrote:
> > <<Maybe not with modern sea paddlers, but modern playboaters tend to
spend
> > quite a lot of time in or under water instead of just on it.>>
> >
> >
> > LOL Well Wilko......someone makes money selling "DRIP RINGS" ....but not
on
> > me or anyone I know.
>
> <innocent look> Hey, I have some of those somewhere! :-)
>
> Seriously though, I'm convinced that I lose more energy from cooling
> down because I'm hanging upside-down in the water than from moving my
> paddle. Boating comes so easily now that I doubt that takes much energy
> nowadays.
>
> We spent last week paddling in Slovenia, and I would be exhausted at the
> end of a stretch of river, mostly from cooling down when doing stern
> squirts, cartwheels or simply flipping when playing and not so much from
> using my muscles so much.
>
>
> --
> Wilko van den Bergh wilko<a t)dse(d o t>nl
> Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
> ---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
> http://kayaker.nl/
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 08 Aug 2006 10:14:11
From: Wilko
Subject: Re: origins of eskimo roll
|
Grip wrote:
> Me too, but it's such a "good" kind of exhautsion. I'de love to boat OOC
> "out of country" sometime. I remember how crystal clear the rivers in older
> Prijon catalogs were and how beautiful the rivers.....any idea where tose
> were shot?
The founder of Prijon, Tony Prijon is Slovenian, and he has opened a
Prijon testing centre in the town of Cezsoca, near the confluence of the
Soca and Koritnica rivers. I bet a lot of the pictures with the clear
blue-green river came from around there (Then again, they were all over
the world, so who knows?).
Anyway, that's where we were paddling this past week. If you like a nice
varied two week class II-IV trip, Greece at the end of April is also a
good choice. Mostly very clear water, beautiful gorges and incredibly
friendly people (very much unlike the tourist-hungry folks near the
popular tourist resorts!).
I'm still curious to paddle in South and Middle America and New Zealand,
but those destinations will have a to wait for a while...
--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko<a t)dse(d o t >nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://kayaker.nl/
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 08 Aug 2006 10:27:57
From: Grip
Subject: Re: origins of eskimo roll
|
Thanks! Been looking at the southern Americas myself.......in winter of
course.
"Wilko" <look_in@my.sig > wrote in message
news:ZpmdnZwet9lK2kXZRVny2Q@edutel.nl...
> Grip wrote:
> > Me too, but it's such a "good" kind of exhautsion. I'de love to boat OOC
> > "out of country" sometime. I remember how crystal clear the rivers in
older
> > Prijon catalogs were and how beautiful the rivers.....any idea where
tose
> > were shot?
>
> The founder of Prijon, Tony Prijon is Slovenian, and he has opened a
> Prijon testing centre in the town of Cezsoca, near the confluence of the
> Soca and Koritnica rivers. I bet a lot of the pictures with the clear
> blue-green river came from around there (Then again, they were all over
> the world, so who knows?).
>
> Anyway, that's where we were paddling this past week. If you like a nice
> varied two week class II-IV trip, Greece at the end of April is also a
> good choice. Mostly very clear water, beautiful gorges and incredibly
> friendly people (very much unlike the tourist-hungry folks near the
> popular tourist resorts!).
>
> I'm still curious to paddle in South and Middle America and New Zealand,
> but those destinations will have a to wait for a while...
>
>
> --
> Wilko van den Bergh wilko<a t)dse(d o t>nl
> Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
> ---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
> http://kayaker.nl/
|
| |
Date: 04 Aug 2006 13:28:34
From: Claus Lohrberg
Subject: Re: origins of eskimo roll
|
jeslawrence schrieb:
> Im researching origins of the eskimo roll.
> [...]
Hi,
I think all known types of Kayak Rolling are listed here:
http://www.greatlakeskayaker.ca/kayakRollingXref.htm
on a wave ;-)
claus lohrberg
--
mail: mail2006[at]neuschwimmer[dot]de
web: http://www.claus-lohrberg.de
|
| |
Date: 04 Aug 2006 00:48:32
From: Michael Daly
Subject: Re: origins of eskimo roll
|
jeslawrence wrote:
> Im researching origins of the eskimo roll. Somewhere I heard that[...]
> this account is true... does anyone have ideas/evidence?
Very fanciful stuff. If you find anything to verify this, I'm sure you'd be the
first.
Mike
|
|
