| |
Main
Date: 28 Sep 2005 17:18:53
From: Cheryl Cato
Subject: newbie paddler
|
I recently received a kayak as a gift (Pelican Pursuit 11) and want to
learn flat water paddling. Can someone suggest good books/instructional
videos/DVD's to help learn good paddling techniques?
Thanks!
Cheryl
Lyons, TX
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|
| |
Date: 13 Oct 2005 16:15:42
From: Oci-One Kanubi
Subject: Re: newbie paddler
|
KMAN wrote:
> in article 1129212214.789252.132790@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, Oci-One
> Kanubi at rhopley@earthlink.net wrote on 10/13/05 10:03 AM:
>
> > KMAN wrote:
> >> "Oci-One Kanubi" <rhopley@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >> news:1129136556.591539.243240@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >>> KMAN wrote:
> >>>> in article jWN%e.3766$794.2630@trndny01, Brian Nystrom at
> >>>> brian.nystrom@verizon.net wrote on 10/2/05 5:40 AM:
> >>>>
> >>>>> KMAN wrote:
> >>>>>> in article F5u%e.2660$794.1892@trndny01, Brian Nystrom at
> >>>>>> brian.nystrom@verizon.net wrote on 10/1/05 7:07 AM:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> KMAN wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> "Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >>>>>>>> news:fE9%e.26846$lW3.4254@trndny09...
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Grip wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> There is virtually no learning curve for such a craft when usi=
ng
> >>>>>>>>>> on quiet
> >>>>>>>>>> water. Just be SURE to wear your PFD. Basically, just hop in a=
nd
> >>>>>>>>>> paddle.
> >>>>>>>>>> It
> >>>>>>>>>> helps to keep your eyes on a distant land mark to develop a
> >>>>>>>>>> straight
> >>>>>>>>>> line.
> >>>>>>>>>> As far as properly using your paddle, when placing the blade i=
nto
> >>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>> water,
> >>>>>>>>>> think of putting the paddle in at your feet and out at your hi=
ps,
> >>>>>>>>>> when
> >>>>>>>>>> you
> >>>>>>>>>> place the paddle in the water, also think of "pulling" the boa=
t to
> >>>>>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>>> paddle instead of "pushing" the boat with the paddle. It's a
> >>>>>>>>>> matter of
> >>>>>>>>>> putting in the time
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> I have to disagree with this assessment. An efficient forward
> >>>>>>>>> stroke
> >>>>>>>>> requires more than just sticking the paddle in the water and
> >>>>>>>>> pulling it
> >>>>>>>>> with your arms. All the time in the world won't create a good
> >>>>>>>>> stroke if
> >>>>>>>>> one doesn't understand the basic technique. It's not complicate=
d,
> >>>>>>>>> but I
> >>>>>>>>> see a LOT of "arm paddlers" on the water who would be better se=
rved
> >>>>>>>>> if
> >>>>>>>>> they knew something about torso rotation.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Additionally, even a recreational paddler needs to know how to
> >>>>>>>>> maneuver
> >>>>>>>>> their kayak, so reverse, draw and rudder strokes are important =
to
> >>>>>>>>> know. A
> >>>>>>>>> low brace is necessary as well, since even flat water paddlers =
can
> >>>>>>>>> encounter boat wakes and such.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> One needn't be a "serious" paddler in order to benefit from a g=
ood
> >>>>>>>>> knowledge of the basics of paddling.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> There is no right or wrong. There is something to be said for si=
mply
> >>>>>>>> experimenting and learning as you go. Some people really enjoy t=
hat
> >>>>>>>> and
> >>>>>>>> learn well that way.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I have yet to meet anyone who has developed good strokes without =
some
> >>>>>>> form of instruction, be it written, video or coaching. There's
> >>>>>>> certainly
> >>>>>>> nothing wrong with dabbling around, but it's not likely to result=
in
> >>>>>>> any
> >>>>>>> significant skill development.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Just about everything I enjoy in life I learned on my own terms, f=
rom
> >>>>>> tennis
> >>>>>> to kayaking. I certainly did some reading and engaged in plenty of
> >>>>>> observation of others, but not one minute of professional instruct=
ion.
> >>>>>> And I
> >>>>>> daresay I can clobber many a tennis player who went to a fancy ten=
nis
> >>>>>> school, and while I haven't been measured for paddling efficiency,
> >>>>>> I've
> >>>>>> never had a problem keeping up with anyone with godlike kayaking
> >>>>>> qualification or managing the same conditions they do.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Did I say "professional instruction" anywhere? There are plenty of =
ways
> >>>>> to learn from other people besides paying them to teach you.
> >>>>
> >>>> Certainly.
> >>>>
> >>>>>>>> Some people would rather start with tapping into an
> >>>>>>>> experienced person's expertise from minute one. Others are somew=
here
> >>>>>>>> in
> >>>>>>>> between. I got in the water and went. Later on I enjoyed learning
> >>>>>>>> from
> >>>>>>>> books
> >>>>>>>> and trying out what I read on the water.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Since the original poster was asking about books and videos, it s=
eems
> >>>>>>> pretty clear what method she prefers.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Mhm?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What is mhm?
> >>>>
> >>>> Mhm is "What is the relevance of that comment in consideration of the
> >>>> point
> >>>> that was being made?"
> >>>
> >>> Mhm?[1]
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> [1] Mhm is "What is the relevance of the point that you were making in
> >>> consideration of the topic of this thread?"
> >>
> >> Oho!
> >
> > Sir. If you will forgive me for saying so, I think you mean "aha!"
>
> You are.
>
> "Aha!" is what I would use to indicate the outcome from some sort of
> cognitive dissonance, as in "Oh, I never knew that" or perhaps more of a =
"So
> now I've got you!"
>
> "Oho!" is more of a George Costanza-esque "So, you are taking it up a
> notch!" That kind of thing.
George Costanza is a TV actor, right? Sorry [well, not really], I am
unfamiliar with his shtick.
> > Butt[1] I could be mistaken.
> >
> > [1] a tip of the hat to a former r.b.p[2] comrade
>
> Did he die? And if so, was he professionally trained, or self-taught?
Nope. He just sorta faded away.
But, yeh, he was professionally trained... as an organic chemist.
> > [2] rodent.boat.paddle
>
> weasel.boat.paddle
w=2Eb.p? That sounds vewy effiminate to me. Tw=E9s gay.
-Richard, His Kanubic Travesty
--
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Richard Hopley Winston-Salem, NC, USA
rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net
Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll
rhopley[at]wfubmc[dot]edu
OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
|
| | |
Date: 13 Oct 2005 20:52:11
From: KMAN
Subject: Re: newbie paddler
|
in article 1129245342.722815.312620@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, Oci-One
Kanubi at rhopley@earthlink.net wrote on 10/13/05 7:15 PM:
> KMAN wrote:
>> in article 1129212214.789252.132790@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, Oci-One
>> Kanubi at rhopley@earthlink.net wrote on 10/13/05 10:03 AM:
>>
>>> KMAN wrote:
>>>> "Oci-One Kanubi" <rhopley@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:1129136556.591539.243240@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>>>> KMAN wrote:
>>>>>> in article jWN%e.3766$794.2630@trndny01, Brian Nystrom at
>>>>>> brian.nystrom@verizon.net wrote on 10/2/05 5:40 AM:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> KMAN wrote:
>>>>>>>> in article F5u%e.2660$794.1892@trndny01, Brian Nystrom at
>>>>>>>> brian.nystrom@verizon.net wrote on 10/1/05 7:07 AM:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> KMAN wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> "Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>>>>>>>> news:fE9%e.26846$lW3.4254@trndny09...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Grip wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> There is virtually no learning curve for such a craft when using
>>>>>>>>>>>> on quiet
>>>>>>>>>>>> water. Just be SURE to wear your PFD. Basically, just hop in and
>>>>>>>>>>>> paddle.
>>>>>>>>>>>> It
>>>>>>>>>>>> helps to keep your eyes on a distant land mark to develop a
>>>>>>>>>>>> straight
>>>>>>>>>>>> line.
>>>>>>>>>>>> As far as properly using your paddle, when placing the blade into
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> water,
>>>>>>>>>>>> think of putting the paddle in at your feet and out at your hips,
>>>>>>>>>>>> when
>>>>>>>>>>>> you
>>>>>>>>>>>> place the paddle in the water, also think of "pulling" the boat to
>>>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>>>> paddle instead of "pushing" the boat with the paddle. It's a
>>>>>>>>>>>> matter of
>>>>>>>>>>>> putting in the time
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I have to disagree with this assessment. An efficient forward
>>>>>>>>>>> stroke
>>>>>>>>>>> requires more than just sticking the paddle in the water and
>>>>>>>>>>> pulling it
>>>>>>>>>>> with your arms. All the time in the world won't create a good
>>>>>>>>>>> stroke if
>>>>>>>>>>> one doesn't understand the basic technique. It's not complicated,
>>>>>>>>>>> but I
>>>>>>>>>>> see a LOT of "arm paddlers" on the water who would be better served
>>>>>>>>>>> if
>>>>>>>>>>> they knew something about torso rotation.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Additionally, even a recreational paddler needs to know how to
>>>>>>>>>>> maneuver
>>>>>>>>>>> their kayak, so reverse, draw and rudder strokes are important to
>>>>>>>>>>> know. A
>>>>>>>>>>> low brace is necessary as well, since even flat water paddlers can
>>>>>>>>>>> encounter boat wakes and such.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> One needn't be a "serious" paddler in order to benefit from a good
>>>>>>>>>>> knowledge of the basics of paddling.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> There is no right or wrong. There is something to be said for simply
>>>>>>>>>> experimenting and learning as you go. Some people really enjoy that
>>>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>>>> learn well that way.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I have yet to meet anyone who has developed good strokes without some
>>>>>>>>> form of instruction, be it written, video or coaching. There's
>>>>>>>>> certainly
>>>>>>>>> nothing wrong with dabbling around, but it's not likely to result in
>>>>>>>>> any
>>>>>>>>> significant skill development.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Just about everything I enjoy in life I learned on my own terms, from
>>>>>>>> tennis
>>>>>>>> to kayaking. I certainly did some reading and engaged in plenty of
>>>>>>>> observation of others, but not one minute of professional instruction.
>>>>>>>> And I
>>>>>>>> daresay I can clobber many a tennis player who went to a fancy tennis
>>>>>>>> school, and while I haven't been measured for paddling efficiency,
>>>>>>>> I've
>>>>>>>> never had a problem keeping up with anyone with godlike kayaking
>>>>>>>> qualification or managing the same conditions they do.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Did I say "professional instruction" anywhere? There are plenty of ways
>>>>>>> to learn from other people besides paying them to teach you.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Certainly.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Some people would rather start with tapping into an
>>>>>>>>>> experienced person's expertise from minute one. Others are somewhere
>>>>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>>>>> between. I got in the water and went. Later on I enjoyed learning
>>>>>>>>>> from
>>>>>>>>>> books
>>>>>>>>>> and trying out what I read on the water.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Since the original poster was asking about books and videos, it seems
>>>>>>>>> pretty clear what method she prefers.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Mhm?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What is mhm?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mhm is "What is the relevance of that comment in consideration of the
>>>>>> point
>>>>>> that was being made?"
>>>>>
>>>>> Mhm?[1]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> [1] Mhm is "What is the relevance of the point that you were making in
>>>>> consideration of the topic of this thread?"
>>>>
>>>> Oho!
>>>
>>> Sir. If you will forgive me for saying so, I think you mean "aha!"
>>
>> You are.
>>
>> "Aha!" is what I would use to indicate the outcome from some sort of
>> cognitive dissonance, as in "Oh, I never knew that" or perhaps more of a "So
>> now I've got you!"
>>
>> "Oho!" is more of a George Costanza-esque "So, you are taking it up a
>> notch!" That kind of thing.
>
> George Costanza is a TV actor, right? Sorry [well, not really], I am
> unfamiliar with his shtick.
He's a character. On a little show called Seinfeld. Let's say George was in
a job where the boss wanted him to quit, so he boarded up George's office
and removed his washroom access. George would like say "Oho!" and then being
plotting his next move.
>>> Butt[1] I could be mistaken.
>>>
>>> [1] a tip of the hat to a former r.b.p[2] comrade
>>
>> Did he die? And if so, was he professionally trained, or self-taught?
>
> Nope. He just sorta faded away.
>
> But, yeh, he was professionally trained... as an organic chemist.
Ah!
>>> [2] rodent.boat.paddle
>>
>> weasel.boat.paddle
>
> w.b.p? That sounds vewy effiminate to me. Twés gay.
As George would say "Not that there's anything wrong with that."
Unless you are some sort of homophobic religifed nut, of course.
|
| |
Date: 11 Oct 2005 09:09:48
From: Mr. C
Subject: Re: newbie paddler
|
Cheryl,
There have been a lot of good suggestions made here and it sounds like
you are well on the way to pursuing your goal. As you read the dialog
between Brian and KMAN, you can see that some people prefer to learn
entirely on their own and others don't mind or even prefer getting
help from others.
I, like everybody else, started out as an arm paddler but have learned
to paddle efficiently from reading and watching videos. I would make
an analogy of riding a bike where you learn by yourself and just push
with your feet on the ground to propel the bike. But with some
outside help, you discover the peddals and an amazing increase in
speed, handling, stamina, and ... fun! I have found the same is true
with kayaking. In KMANs case, he might discover that by himself in a
few minutes, a few hours, or maybe a few years. But as I look at it,
life is short and paddlling days are relatively few.
Another thing happens when you look for help outside yourself. You
begin to trust others by learning from them. That, in turn, will
hopefully make you willing to share your experiences and learning
stories with others. It adds a new dimension to kayaking that just
plain makes it more fun.
Finally, as you learn, be humble but do not become discouraged. Things
take time. Whatever you learn, you must try to make it enjoyable and
even fun.
Lou
|
| | |
Date: 11 Oct 2005 22:36:08
From: KMAN
Subject: Re: newbie paddler
|
in article addnk15j01dsc9vcgc3v4dine8adbsnde2@4ax.com, Mr. C at
fakeemail@hotmail.com wrote on 10/11/05 9:09 AM:
> Cheryl,
>
> There have been a lot of good suggestions made here and it sounds like
> you are well on the way to pursuing your goal. As you read the dialog
> between Brian and KMAN, you can see that some people prefer to learn
> entirely on their own and others don't mind or even prefer getting
> help from others.
>
> I, like everybody else, started out as an arm paddler but have learned
> to paddle efficiently from reading and watching videos. I would make
> an analogy of riding a bike where you learn by yourself and just push
> with your feet on the ground to propel the bike. But with some
> outside help, you discover the peddals and an amazing increase in
> speed, handling, stamina, and ... fun! I have found the same is true
> with kayaking. In KMANs case, he might discover that by himself in a
> few minutes, a few hours, or maybe a few years. But as I look at it,
> life is short and paddlling days are relatively few.
Yes, but it is not necessary to go beyond your own ability to observe and
experiment in order to improve. The common assumption is often that learning
is something to rush through in order to arrive at enjoyment. Well, if you
like sex that last about 30 seconds, then I guess that's the right
philosophy! Personally I find the journey is just as important as the
destination, and that goes for paddling too :-)
> Another thing happens when you look for help outside yourself. You
> begin to trust others by learning from them. That, in turn, will
> hopefully make you willing to share your experiences and learning
> stories with others. It adds a new dimension to kayaking that just
> plain makes it more fun.
Oh, I'm all for sharing experiences with others. Do it all the time! But
that's different from surrendering your ability to learn without outside
help, which seems to me is a common mindset.
> Finally, as you learn, be humble but do not become discouraged. Things
> take time. Whatever you learn, you must try to make it enjoyable and
> even fun.
>
> Lou
Learning is exciting. The problem is some people think it is something to
avoid or get past as quickly as possible.
|
| | | |
Date: 12 Oct 2005 09:02:17
From: Mr. C
Subject: Re: newbie paddler
|
>The common assumption is often that learning
>is something to rush through in order to arrive at enjoyment.
I agree that it seems a lot of people do not want to spend the time to
learn. They would rather buy their learning in an instant package.
They feel that by shoveling money at a problem it will be taken care
of quickly.
>Oh, I'm all for sharing experiences with others. Do it all the time! But
>that's different from surrendering your ability to learn without outside
>help, which seems to me is a common mindset.
Seems you are going to extremes on us here. Neither Brian nor I ever
said to "surrender" your ability - its more like enhancing your
educational resources. What do you consider "outside help"? Is
outside help anything other than what my mind tells me to try or
change? Books, videos, professional instructors, and peers can all be
extremely valuable outside help in learning.
When I first learned to use a kayak I completely surrendered to what a
book told me to do. Up to that point I had been a canoeist all my
life and the book told me kayak paddling is different than canoe
paddling. I probably would not have discovered that by myself until
many months and sore shoulders later.
I guess what I am saying to the OP and others that are new to the
kayaking scene is be open to different avenues of learning. Don't be
closed-minded. I think whether you do it yourself or have other help,
it MUST be interesting and fun. Otherwise it will be short-lived.
>Learning is exciting. The problem is some people think it is something to
>avoid or get past as quickly as possible.
I agree. It is unfortunate that so many do not like the journey of
learing. I think learning, in itself, is a lot of fun. I think a lot
of people take it much to seriously too. Whether shoveling money at
the situation or not, some people try to learn too quickly which
completely destroys the fun of learning.
I addition to what you have said, I think there are people who, no
matter what the endeavor, feel professional help is always the best
way and the only valid way to learn. Unfortunately, those types can
get hooked up with a lousy instructor and their paddling ability and
probably their enjoyment of the sport will be lousy too. The best
instructor is one who not only teaches techniques, but also teaches
how to learn.
Lou
|
| | | | |
Date: 12 Oct 2005 10:06:44
From: PG
Subject: Re: newbie paddler
|
Besides, there are many different learning styles. One type does it best by
"doing" - trial and error basically. Another needs to have clear written
instructions and a structured approach. Still another needs to learn by
mimicking an instructor. Some have a "visual" learning style, while others
need to hear the instructions. Occasionally, one finds "kinetic" learners
that need to feel what they are doing to absorb it. I know that my primary
method of learning new stuff is by doing, whereas my spouse is definitely
the structured apprach type of learner. As an instructor in a technical
field, I have already learned that I have to figure out how my student
absorbs information, and then use that method as the primary one. As with
personality types, it is rare to find someone who is excusively one style -
most of us have a primary method and a secondary method that we fall back
on. Some people (very few) are capable of using any of the styles
comfortably, depending on the context. So keep in mind that there is more
than one way to learn a skill, even a neuro-muscular one.
Paul
"Mr. C" <fakeemail@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:2e0qk1hgkegag2p15un1frps775k852efs@4ax.com...
> >The common assumption is often that learning
>>is something to rush through in order to arrive at enjoyment.
>
> I agree that it seems a lot of people do not want to spend the time to
> learn. They would rather buy their learning in an instant package.
> They feel that by shoveling money at a problem it will be taken care
> of quickly.
>
>>Oh, I'm all for sharing experiences with others. Do it all the time! But
>>that's different from surrendering your ability to learn without outside
>>help, which seems to me is a common mindset.
>
> Seems you are going to extremes on us here. Neither Brian nor I ever
> said to "surrender" your ability - its more like enhancing your
> educational resources. What do you consider "outside help"? Is
> outside help anything other than what my mind tells me to try or
> change? Books, videos, professional instructors, and peers can all be
> extremely valuable outside help in learning.
>
> When I first learned to use a kayak I completely surrendered to what a
> book told me to do. Up to that point I had been a canoeist all my
> life and the book told me kayak paddling is different than canoe
> paddling. I probably would not have discovered that by myself until
> many months and sore shoulders later.
>
> I guess what I am saying to the OP and others that are new to the
> kayaking scene is be open to different avenues of learning. Don't be
> closed-minded. I think whether you do it yourself or have other help,
> it MUST be interesting and fun. Otherwise it will be short-lived.
>
>>Learning is exciting. The problem is some people think it is something to
>>avoid or get past as quickly as possible.
>
> I agree. It is unfortunate that so many do not like the journey of
> learing. I think learning, in itself, is a lot of fun. I think a lot
> of people take it much to seriously too. Whether shoveling money at
> the situation or not, some people try to learn too quickly which
> completely destroys the fun of learning.
>
> I addition to what you have said, I think there are people who, no
> matter what the endeavor, feel professional help is always the best
> way and the only valid way to learn. Unfortunately, those types can
> get hooked up with a lousy instructor and their paddling ability and
> probably their enjoyment of the sport will be lousy too. The best
> instructor is one who not only teaches techniques, but also teaches
> how to learn.
>
> Lou
>
|
| | | | |
Date: 12 Oct 2005 10:02:23
From: KMAN
Subject: Re: newbie paddler
|
"Mr. C" <fakeemail@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:2e0qk1hgkegag2p15un1frps775k852efs@4ax.com...
> >The common assumption is often that learning
>>is something to rush through in order to arrive at enjoyment.
>
> I agree that it seems a lot of people do not want to spend the time to
> learn. They would rather buy their learning in an instant package.
> They feel that by shoveling money at a problem it will be taken care
> of quickly.
>
>>Oh, I'm all for sharing experiences with others. Do it all the time! But
>>that's different from surrendering your ability to learn without outside
>>help, which seems to me is a common mindset.
>
> Seems you are going to extremes on us here. Neither Brian nor I ever
> said to "surrender" your ability - its more like enhancing your
> educational resources. What do you consider "outside help"? Is
> outside help anything other than what my mind tells me to try or
> change? Books, videos, professional instructors, and peers can all be
> extremely valuable outside help in learning.
>
> When I first learned to use a kayak I completely surrendered to what a
> book told me to do. Up to that point I had been a canoeist all my
> life and the book told me kayak paddling is different than canoe
> paddling. I probably would not have discovered that by myself until
> many months and sore shoulders later.
>
> I guess what I am saying to the OP and others that are new to the
> kayaking scene is be open to different avenues of learning. Don't be
> closed-minded. I think whether you do it yourself or have other help,
> it MUST be interesting and fun. Otherwise it will be short-lived.
Uh, yeah, and learning something by experience is made very difficult if you
are close-minded. In fact, for close-minded people, hiring someone to tell
you what to do will be more successful for you than learning from your own
experiences.
>>Learning is exciting. The problem is some people think it is something to
>>avoid or get past as quickly as possible.
>
> I agree. It is unfortunate that so many do not like the journey of
> learing. I think learning, in itself, is a lot of fun. I think a lot
> of people take it much to seriously too. Whether shoveling money at
> the situation or not, some people try to learn too quickly which
> completely destroys the fun of learning.
>
> I addition to what you have said, I think there are people who, no
> matter what the endeavor, feel professional help is always the best
> way and the only valid way to learn.
I consider those people victims.
> Unfortunately, those types can
> get hooked up with a lousy instructor and their paddling ability and
> probably their enjoyment of the sport will be lousy too. The best
> instructor is one who not only teaches techniques, but also teaches
> how to learn.
>
> Lou
Sounds good to me.
|
| |
Date: 10 Oct 2005 20:59:28
From: Cheryl Cato
Subject: Re: newbie paddler
|
Cheryl Cato <ccato@tamu.edu > wrote:
>
>I recently received a kayak as a gift (Pelican Pursuit 11) and want to
>learn flat water paddling. Can someone suggest good books/instructional
>videos/DVD's to help learn good paddling techniques?
>
I would like to say thanks to everyone who offered suggestions, tips,
helpful hintsand advice. I already have a stack of books, DVD's on the way, and
bookmarks tothe schedules of some paddling schools (about 100 miles away and
apparentlywinding down for the winter - but I'll see them in the spring!).
I've already learned a lot from the books and have had many "oh - so
that's it!"moments. I also already think my "beginner boat" will satisfy me for a
far shorterperiod than I originally thought. *wink* I was raised on the coast -
so that surf stuff is looking pretty fascinating.
Thanks again for everyone's help (and patience with us rookies)!
Cheryl
Lyons, TX
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Date: 02 Oct 2005 18:02:42
From: bits
Subject: Re: newbie paddler
|
I would look for the Nigel Foster DVD series. I got mine through
www.nrsweb.com. I found the Nigel Foster's Sea Kayaking DVD Series a good
value for information on stroke technique and rescues. While the series is
titled "Sea Kayaking", Volume 2 Essential Strokes is shot on flat water. I
would also recommend Volume 4 Rescues.
When my wife and I got into kayaking we took a couple of Sea Kayaking Basic
classes so we could get our cards which would allow us to rent single sit-in
kayaks. We wanted to demo a lot of boats prior to making a purchase.
Yes ultimately you have to get out and paddle to improve. The DVD lets us
review stroke technique instruction when we are off the water using one
person's idea on how to build an efficient stroke repertoire. We have bought
into to his instruction on stroke technique and we use it to build a
practice routines. Every time we go out to paddle my wife and I use a
practice routine on the water to warm up prior to pushing off for our paddle
trip. This practice let's us become one with our boats again so to say and
see how the boats respond in the conditions present on that day. We also
plan our paddle day to allow some time near the end of the day to practice
wet exits and rescues. Sometimes we wind up practicing our wet exits and
rescuse a bit earlier than the end of the trip! :-)
This is the scheme that is working for us and allows us to improve our
skills. We sometimes video tape our practice sessions so we can later watch
"film" and see what was working and not working as far as our technique that
day. We can also view that day's practice session against the baseline from
the first time we went out in our kayaks. How we built our routine and
program to improve may not be right for you but at a minimum you should
consider the Nigel Foster DVD series Volume #2 & #4..
"Cheryl Cato" <ccato@tamu.edu > wrote in message
news:dhf4se$l1f$1@news.tamu.edu...
>
> I recently received a kayak as a gift (Pelican Pursuit 11) and want to
> learn flat water paddling. Can someone suggest good books/instructional
> videos/DVD's to help learn good paddling techniques?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Cheryl
> Lyons, TX
>
>
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| |
Date: 30 Sep 2005 15:40:00
From: araby
Subject: Re: newbie paddler
|
"Cheryl Cato" <ccato@tamu.edu > wrote in message
news:dhf4se$l1f$1@news.tamu.edu...
>
> I recently received a kayak as a gift (Pelican Pursuit 11) and want to
> learn flat water paddling. Can someone suggest good books/instructional
> videos/DVD's to help learn good paddling techniques?
>
When I started I visited the local library. Most seem to have several books
on the subject -and they're free!
Good luck,
Roy
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Date: 29 Sep 2005 20:18:42
From: Grip
Subject: Re: newbie paddler
|
There is virtually no learning curve for such a craft when using on quiet
water. Just be SURE to wear your PFD. Basically, just hop in and paddle. It
helps to keep your eyes on a distant land mark to develop a straight line.
As far as properly using your paddle, when placing the blade into the water,
think of putting the paddle in at your feet and out at your hips, when you
place the paddle in the water, also think of "pulling" the boat to the
paddle instead of "pushing" the boat with the paddle. It's a matter of
putting in the time
"Cheryl Cato" <ccato@tamu.edu > wrote in message
news:dhf4se$l1f$1@news.tamu.edu...
>
> I recently received a kayak as a gift (Pelican Pursuit 11) and want to
> learn flat water paddling. Can someone suggest good books/instructional
> videos/DVD's to help learn good paddling techniques?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Cheryl
> Lyons, TX
>
|
| | |
Date: 30 Sep 2005 11:50:35
From: Brian Nystrom
Subject: Re: newbie paddler
|
Grip wrote:
> There is virtually no learning curve for such a craft when using on quiet
> water. Just be SURE to wear your PFD. Basically, just hop in and paddle. It
> helps to keep your eyes on a distant land mark to develop a straight line.
> As far as properly using your paddle, when placing the blade into the water,
> think of putting the paddle in at your feet and out at your hips, when you
> place the paddle in the water, also think of "pulling" the boat to the
> paddle instead of "pushing" the boat with the paddle. It's a matter of
> putting in the time
I have to disagree with this assessment. An efficient forward stroke
requires more than just sticking the paddle in the water and pulling it
with your arms. All the time in the world won't create a good stroke if
one doesn't understand the basic technique. It's not complicated, but I
see a LOT of "arm paddlers" on the water who would be better served if
they knew something about torso rotation.
Additionally, even a recreational paddler needs to know how to maneuver
their kayak, so reverse, draw and rudder strokes are important to know.
A low brace is necessary as well, since even flat water paddlers can
encounter boat wakes and such.
One needn't be a "serious" paddler in order to benefit from a good
knowledge of the basics of paddling.
|
| | | |
Date: 02 Oct 2005 23:07:08
From: Grip
Subject: Re: newbie paddler
|
All good points for sure, especially the torso rotation. I should have
mentioned that.....thanks :-)
"Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net > wrote in message
news:fE9%e.26846$lW3.4254@trndny09...
> Grip wrote:
> > There is virtually no learning curve for such a craft when using on
quiet
> > water. Just be SURE to wear your PFD. Basically, just hop in and paddle.
It
> > helps to keep your eyes on a distant land mark to develop a straight
line.
> > As far as properly using your paddle, when placing the blade into the
water,
> > think of putting the paddle in at your feet and out at your hips, when
you
> > place the paddle in the water, also think of "pulling" the boat to the
> > paddle instead of "pushing" the boat with the paddle. It's a matter of
> > putting in the time
>
> I have to disagree with this assessment. An efficient forward stroke
> requires more than just sticking the paddle in the water and pulling it
> with your arms. All the time in the world won't create a good stroke if
> one doesn't understand the basic technique. It's not complicated, but I
> see a LOT of "arm paddlers" on the water who would be better served if
> they knew something about torso rotation.
>
> Additionally, even a recreational paddler needs to know how to maneuver
> their kayak, so reverse, draw and rudder strokes are important to know.
> A low brace is necessary as well, since even flat water paddlers can
> encounter boat wakes and such.
>
> One needn't be a "serious" paddler in order to benefit from a good
> knowledge of the basics of paddling.
>
|
| | | |
Date: 30 Sep 2005 13:34:44
From: KMAN
Subject: Re: newbie paddler
|
"Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net > wrote in message
news:fE9%e.26846$lW3.4254@trndny09...
> Grip wrote:
>> There is virtually no learning curve for such a craft when using on quiet
>> water. Just be SURE to wear your PFD. Basically, just hop in and paddle.
>> It
>> helps to keep your eyes on a distant land mark to develop a straight
>> line.
>> As far as properly using your paddle, when placing the blade into the
>> water,
>> think of putting the paddle in at your feet and out at your hips, when
>> you
>> place the paddle in the water, also think of "pulling" the boat to the
>> paddle instead of "pushing" the boat with the paddle. It's a matter of
>> putting in the time
>
> I have to disagree with this assessment. An efficient forward stroke
> requires more than just sticking the paddle in the water and pulling it
> with your arms. All the time in the world won't create a good stroke if
> one doesn't understand the basic technique. It's not complicated, but I
> see a LOT of "arm paddlers" on the water who would be better served if
> they knew something about torso rotation.
>
> Additionally, even a recreational paddler needs to know how to maneuver
> their kayak, so reverse, draw and rudder strokes are important to know. A
> low brace is necessary as well, since even flat water paddlers can
> encounter boat wakes and such.
>
> One needn't be a "serious" paddler in order to benefit from a good
> knowledge of the basics of paddling.
There is no right or wrong. There is something to be said for simply
experimenting and learning as you go. Some people really enjoy that and
learn well that way. Some people would rather start with tapping into an
experienced person's expertise from minute one. Others are somewhere in
between. I got in the water and went. Later on I enjoyed learning from books
and trying out what I read on the water.
|
| | | | |
Date: 01 Oct 2005 11:07:17
From: Brian Nystrom
Subject: Re: newbie paddler
|
KMAN wrote:
> "Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:fE9%e.26846$lW3.4254@trndny09...
>
>>Grip wrote:
>>
>>>There is virtually no learning curve for such a craft when using on quiet
>>>water. Just be SURE to wear your PFD. Basically, just hop in and paddle.
>>>It
>>>helps to keep your eyes on a distant land mark to develop a straight
>>>line.
>>>As far as properly using your paddle, when placing the blade into the
>>>water,
>>>think of putting the paddle in at your feet and out at your hips, when
>>>you
>>>place the paddle in the water, also think of "pulling" the boat to the
>>>paddle instead of "pushing" the boat with the paddle. It's a matter of
>>>putting in the time
>>
>>I have to disagree with this assessment. An efficient forward stroke
>>requires more than just sticking the paddle in the water and pulling it
>>with your arms. All the time in the world won't create a good stroke if
>>one doesn't understand the basic technique. It's not complicated, but I
>>see a LOT of "arm paddlers" on the water who would be better served if
>>they knew something about torso rotation.
>>
>>Additionally, even a recreational paddler needs to know how to maneuver
>>their kayak, so reverse, draw and rudder strokes are important to know. A
>>low brace is necessary as well, since even flat water paddlers can
>>encounter boat wakes and such.
>>
>>One needn't be a "serious" paddler in order to benefit from a good
>>knowledge of the basics of paddling.
>
>
> There is no right or wrong. There is something to be said for simply
> experimenting and learning as you go. Some people really enjoy that and
> learn well that way.
I have yet to meet anyone who has developed good strokes without some
form of instruction, be it written, video or coaching. There's certainly
nothing wrong with dabbling around, but it's not likely to result in any
significant skill development.
> Some people would rather start with tapping into an
> experienced person's expertise from minute one. Others are somewhere in
> between. I got in the water and went. Later on I enjoyed learning from books
> and trying out what I read on the water.
Since the original poster was asking about books and videos, it seems
pretty clear what method she prefers.
|
| | | | | |
Date: 01 Oct 2005 23:40:24
From: KMAN
Subject: Re: newbie paddler
|
in article F5u%e.2660$794.1892@trndny01, Brian Nystrom at
brian.nystrom@verizon.net wrote on 10/1/05 7:07 AM:
> KMAN wrote:
>> "Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
>> news:fE9%e.26846$lW3.4254@trndny09...
>>
>>> Grip wrote:
>>>
>>>> There is virtually no learning curve for such a craft when using on quiet
>>>> water. Just be SURE to wear your PFD. Basically, just hop in and paddle.
>>>> It
>>>> helps to keep your eyes on a distant land mark to develop a straight
>>>> line.
>>>> As far as properly using your paddle, when placing the blade into the
>>>> water,
>>>> think of putting the paddle in at your feet and out at your hips, when
>>>> you
>>>> place the paddle in the water, also think of "pulling" the boat to the
>>>> paddle instead of "pushing" the boat with the paddle. It's a matter of
>>>> putting in the time
>>>
>>> I have to disagree with this assessment. An efficient forward stroke
>>> requires more than just sticking the paddle in the water and pulling it
>>> with your arms. All the time in the world won't create a good stroke if
>>> one doesn't understand the basic technique. It's not complicated, but I
>>> see a LOT of "arm paddlers" on the water who would be better served if
>>> they knew something about torso rotation.
>>>
>>> Additionally, even a recreational paddler needs to know how to maneuver
>>> their kayak, so reverse, draw and rudder strokes are important to know. A
>>> low brace is necessary as well, since even flat water paddlers can
>>> encounter boat wakes and such.
>>>
>>> One needn't be a "serious" paddler in order to benefit from a good
>>> knowledge of the basics of paddling.
>>
>>
>> There is no right or wrong. There is something to be said for simply
>> experimenting and learning as you go. Some people really enjoy that and
>> learn well that way.
>
> I have yet to meet anyone who has developed good strokes without some
> form of instruction, be it written, video or coaching. There's certainly
> nothing wrong with dabbling around, but it's not likely to result in any
> significant skill development.
Just about everything I enjoy in life I learned on my own terms, from tennis
to kayaking. I certainly did some reading and engaged in plenty of
observation of others, but not one minute of professional instruction. And I
daresay I can clobber many a tennis player who went to a fancy tennis
school, and while I haven't been measured for paddling efficiency, I've
never had a problem keeping up with anyone with godlike kayaking
qualification or managing the same conditions they do.
>> Some people would rather start with tapping into an
>> experienced person's expertise from minute one. Others are somewhere in
>> between. I got in the water and went. Later on I enjoyed learning from books
>> and trying out what I read on the water.
>
> Since the original poster was asking about books and videos, it seems
> pretty clear what method she prefers.
Mhm?
|
| | | | | | |
Date: 02 Oct 2005 09:40:31
From: Brian Nystrom
Subject: Re: newbie paddler
|
KMAN wrote:
> in article F5u%e.2660$794.1892@trndny01, Brian Nystrom at
> brian.nystrom@verizon.net wrote on 10/1/05 7:07 AM:
>
>
>>KMAN wrote:
>>
>>>"Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>news:fE9%e.26846$lW3.4254@trndny09...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Grip wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>There is virtually no learning curve for such a craft when using on quiet
>>>>>water. Just be SURE to wear your PFD. Basically, just hop in and paddle.
>>>>>It
>>>>>helps to keep your eyes on a distant land mark to develop a straight
>>>>>line.
>>>>>As far as properly using your paddle, when placing the blade into the
>>>>>water,
>>>>>think of putting the paddle in at your feet and out at your hips, when
>>>>>you
>>>>>place the paddle in the water, also think of "pulling" the boat to the
>>>>>paddle instead of "pushing" the boat with the paddle. It's a matter of
>>>>>putting in the time
>>>>
>>>>I have to disagree with this assessment. An efficient forward stroke
>>>>requires more than just sticking the paddle in the water and pulling it
>>>>with your arms. All the time in the world won't create a good stroke if
>>>>one doesn't understand the basic technique. It's not complicated, but I
>>>>see a LOT of "arm paddlers" on the water who would be better served if
>>>>they knew something about torso rotation.
>>>>
>>>>Additionally, even a recreational paddler needs to know how to maneuver
>>>>their kayak, so reverse, draw and rudder strokes are important to know. A
>>>>low brace is necessary as well, since even flat water paddlers can
>>>>encounter boat wakes and such.
>>>>
>>>>One needn't be a "serious" paddler in order to benefit from a good
>>>>knowledge of the basics of paddling.
>>>
>>>
>>>There is no right or wrong. There is something to be said for simply
>>>experimenting and learning as you go. Some people really enjoy that and
>>>learn well that way.
>>
>>I have yet to meet anyone who has developed good strokes without some
>>form of instruction, be it written, video or coaching. There's certainly
>>nothing wrong with dabbling around, but it's not likely to result in any
>>significant skill development.
>
>
> Just about everything I enjoy in life I learned on my own terms, from tennis
> to kayaking. I certainly did some reading and engaged in plenty of
> observation of others, but not one minute of professional instruction. And I
> daresay I can clobber many a tennis player who went to a fancy tennis
> school, and while I haven't been measured for paddling efficiency, I've
> never had a problem keeping up with anyone with godlike kayaking
> qualification or managing the same conditions they do.
Did I say "professional instruction" anywhere? There are plenty of ways
to learn from other people besides paying them to teach you.
>>>Some people would rather start with tapping into an
>>>experienced person's expertise from minute one. Others are somewhere in
>>>between. I got in the water and went. Later on I enjoyed learning from books
>>>and trying out what I read on the water.
>>
>>Since the original poster was asking about books and videos, it seems
>>pretty clear what method she prefers.
>
> Mhm?
What is mhm?
|
| | | | | | | |
Date: 02 Oct 2005 12:20:32
From: KMAN
Subject: Re: newbie paddler
|
in article jWN%e.3766$794.2630@trndny01, Brian Nystrom at
brian.nystrom@verizon.net wrote on 10/2/05 5:40 AM:
> KMAN wrote:
>> in article F5u%e.2660$794.1892@trndny01, Brian Nystrom at
>> brian.nystrom@verizon.net wrote on 10/1/05 7:07 AM:
>>
>>
>>> KMAN wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Brian Nystrom" <brian.nystrom@verizon.net> wrote in message
>>>> news:fE9%e.26846$lW3.4254@trndny09...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Grip wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> There is virtually no learning curve for such a craft when using on quiet
>>>>>> water. Just be SURE to wear your PFD. Basically, just hop in and paddle.
>>>>>> It
>>>>>> helps to keep your eyes on a distant land mark to develop a straight
>>>>>> line.
>>>>>> As far as properly using your paddle, when placing the blade into the
>>>>>> water,
>>>>>> think of putting the paddle in at your feet and out at your hips, when
>>>>>> you
>>>>>> place the paddle in the water, also think of "pulling" the boat to the
>>>>>> paddle instead of "pushing" the boat with the paddle. It's a matter of
>>>>>> putting in the time
>>>>>
>>>>> I have to disagree with this assessment. An efficient forward stroke
>>>>> requires more than just sticking the paddle in the water and pulling it
>>>>> with your arms. All the time in the world won't create a good stroke if
>>>>> one doesn't understand the basic technique. It's not complicated, but I
>>>>> see a LOT of "arm paddlers" on the water who would be better served if
>>>>> they knew something about torso rotation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Additionally, even a recreational paddler needs to know how to maneuver
>>>>> their kayak, so reverse, draw and rudder strokes are important to know. A
>>>>> low brace is necessary as well, since even flat water paddlers can
>>>>> encounter boat wakes and such.
>>>>>
>>>>> One needn't be a "serious" paddler in order to benefit from a good
>>>>> knowledge of the basics of paddling.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> There is no right or wrong. There is something to be said for simply
>>>> experimenting and learning as you go. Some people really enjoy that and
>>>> learn well that way.
>>>
>>> I have yet to meet anyone who has developed good strokes without some
>>> form of instruction, be it written, video or coaching. There's certainly
>>> nothing wrong with dabbling around, but it's not likely to result in any
>>> significant skill development.
>>
>>
>> Just about everything I enjoy in life I learned on my own terms, from tennis
>> to kayaking. I certainly did some reading and engaged in plenty of
>> observation of others, but not one minute of professional instruction. And I
>> daresay I can clobber many a tennis player who went to a fancy tennis
>> school, and while I haven't been measured for paddling efficiency, I've
>> never had a problem keeping up with anyone with godlike kayaking
>> qualification or managing the same conditions they do.
>
> Did I say "professional instruction" anywhere? There are plenty of ways
> to learn from other people besides paying them to teach you.
Certainly.
>>>> Some people would rather start with tapping into an
>>>> experienced person's expertise from minute one. Others are somewhere in
>>>> between. I got in the water and went. Later on I enjoyed learning from
>>>> books
>>>> and trying out what I read on the water.
>>>
>>> Since the original poster was asking about books and videos, it seems
>>> pretty clear what method she prefers.
>>
>> Mhm?
>
> What is mhm?
Mhm is "What is the relevance of that comment in consideration of the point
that was being made?"
|
| |
Date: 29 Sep 2005 13:19:54
From: Brian Nystrom
Subject: Re: newbie paddler
|
Cheryl Cato wrote:
>
> I recently received a kayak as a gift (Pelican Pursuit 11) and want to
> learn flat water paddling. Can someone suggest good books/instructional
> videos/DVD's to help learn good paddling techniques?
One of the best books on the subject is "The Essential Sea Kayaker" by
David Seidman. It covers both basic and advanced techniques clearly and
progressively, making them easy to understand and implement.
|
| |
Date: 28 Sep 2005 20:03:53
From: Steve Cramer
Subject: Re: newbie paddler
|
Cheryl Cato wrote:
>
> I recently received a kayak as a gift (Pelican Pursuit 11) and want to
> learn flat water paddling. Can someone suggest good books/instructional
> videos/DVD's to help learn good paddling techniques?
Not many people write books for the type of paddling you're planning,
but one book I've been recommending is Sea Kayaking Illustrated by John
Robison. Ignore the stuff about cartwheels and surfing reactionary
waves. For videos, try Kent Ford's Performance Sea Kayaking. Fast
forward through the scary parts. If none of the scenes look scary, you
need a different boat. :)
--
Steve Cramer
Athens, GA
|
|
