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Main
Date: 08 Aug 2005 13:19:11
From:
Subject: newbie advice on kayak type
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Hi all,
Hope you folks don't mind newbie questions here. I am a beginning
kayaker looking to go out for relatively short (2-3 hours) kayak trips
on mostly flat water ponds and lakes. I'm looking to buy a kayak that
is stable (as in unlikely to flip over in flat water), easy to maneuver
in up to a light wind, and has good back support.
I've been looking around at mainly recreational kayaks, but the thing
is a friend knows someone who can get me a deal on a Dagger Outlaw
whitewater kayak:
http://www.outdoorplay.com/store/department3.0.asp?DeptID=148&DeptCode=AR
The most attractive thing about it for me is price. So, my question,
will this kind of kayak do the job for what I'm looking for? My
assumption is that it is designed to handle much more than gentle flat
water, but that using it on flat water would be fine also. Unless there
is some reason why it wouldn't do well in that situation (tough to
paddle, flips easily, or whatever)? Any thoughts?
Thanks!
Mike M.
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Date: 02 Sep 2005 16:35:55
From: Bob the Cow
Subject: Re: newbie advice on kayak type
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<mikemass@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1123532351.488554.167130@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hi all,
>
> Hope you folks don't mind newbie questions here. I am a beginning
> kayaker looking to go out for relatively short (2-3 hours) kayak trips
> on mostly flat water ponds and lakes. I'm looking to buy a kayak that
> is stable (as in unlikely to flip over in flat water), easy to maneuver
> in up to a light wind, and has good back support.
I got a Current Designs Kestrel HV which does all the above. I got it in
the "TCS" layup but it's also available in rotomolded (plastic), slightly
heavier, but cheaper.
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Date: 09 Aug 2005 06:55:43
From:
Subject: Re: newbie advice on kayak type
|
Thanks, everyone. This is just the kind of advice I was looking for.
Given your comments and my inexperience, I think I'll steer clear of
the Dagger and do some more research on recreational kayaks.
Thanks again!
Mike M.
James Hill wrote:
> Mike,
>
> A whitewater boat would NOT be well-suited to the paddling you hope to do.
> It would take serious effort to keep moving in a straight line, and would be
> a considerable challenge for stability in wind. Only skilled paddlers
> should try to use whitewater boats on flat water.
>
> The Necky Santa Cruz would be fine for what you describe. Also consider the
> Perception America (big open cockpit) or Acadia (smaller cockpit), two
> "recreation" boats I've owned that had reasonable straight-line capabilities
> and excellent primary stability. You might find any of the three used for a
> reasonable price.
>
> If possible, go to a local "demo day", and try everything you can.
>
> Also, consider the best paddle you can afford. After an hour, a heavy,
> inefficient paddle can take ALL the pleasure out of kayaking. Discuss blade
> shape/size, and "swing weight" with your nearest kayak shop. LIGHTER IS
> ALMOST ALWAYS BETTER.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Jim Hill
>
> <mikemass@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1123532351.488554.167130@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Hope you folks don't mind newbie questions here. I am a beginning
> > kayaker looking to go out for relatively short (2-3 hours) kayak trips
> > on mostly flat water ponds and lakes. I'm looking to buy a kayak that
> > is stable (as in unlikely to flip over in flat water), easy to maneuver
> > in up to a light wind, and has good back support.
> >
> > I've been looking around at mainly recreational kayaks, but the thing
> > is a friend knows someone who can get me a deal on a Dagger Outlaw
> > whitewater kayak:
> >
> > http://www.outdoorplay.com/store/department3.0.asp?DeptID=148&DeptCode=AR
> >
> > The most attractive thing about it for me is price. So, my question,
> > will this kind of kayak do the job for what I'm looking for? My
> > assumption is that it is designed to handle much more than gentle flat
> > water, but that using it on flat water would be fine also. Unless there
> > is some reason why it wouldn't do well in that situation (tough to
> > paddle, flips easily, or whatever)? Any thoughts?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Mike M.
> >
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Date: 09 Aug 2005 23:17:38
From: John Fereira
Subject: Re: newbie advice on kayak type
|
mikemass@hotmail.com wrote in
news:1123595743.452945.104400@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
> Thanks, everyone. This is just the kind of advice I was looking for.
> Given your comments and my inexperience, I think I'll steer clear of
> the Dagger and do some more research on recreational kayaks.
A couple of other things to think about. In your original article you
mentioned you wanted a kayak that was very stable. Most beginner
overestimate the importance of stability to a beginning kayaker. I've
watched hundreds of people that had never been in a kayak previously go out
in sea kayaks much less stable than a typical recreational kayak. Some of
them are a bit wobbly at first but when they come back a few hours later
they're sitting quite comfortably. Intial stability is good if you require
it for the kind of paddling your going to be doing (taking photos, fishing
are examples) but not necessarily just because you lack experience. For
most, it become a non-issue after a very short time, so assuming that it
should be a top criteria for choosing a boat might not be wise.
You also mentioned wanting a kayak with good back support. Typically kayaks
with good back support promote poor posture. If you're at all concerned
about paddling efficiently leaning back against a seat back will not do. To
paddle efficient you should be sitting upright, leaning slightly forward,
with just the very lower part of your back pressing against the seat back.
That said, many people that paddle recreational kayaks are not concerned
about paddling efficiently and are perfectly happy strapping their pfd to
the back deck, leaning back with their feet on the fore deck and float
along.
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Date: 09 Aug 2005 09:45:51
From: James Hill
Subject: Re: newbie advice on kayak type
|
Mike,
A whitewater boat would NOT be well-suited to the paddling you hope to do.
It would take serious effort to keep moving in a straight line, and would be
a considerable challenge for stability in wind. Only skilled paddlers
should try to use whitewater boats on flat water.
The Necky Santa Cruz would be fine for what you describe. Also consider the
Perception America (big open cockpit) or Acadia (smaller cockpit), two
"recreation" boats I've owned that had reasonable straight-line capabilities
and excellent primary stability. You might find any of the three used for a
reasonable price.
If possible, go to a local "demo day", and try everything you can.
Also, consider the best paddle you can afford. After an hour, a heavy,
inefficient paddle can take ALL the pleasure out of kayaking. Discuss blade
shape/size, and "swing weight" with your nearest kayak shop. LIGHTER IS
ALMOST ALWAYS BETTER.
Good luck.
Jim Hill
<mikemass@hotmail.com > wrote in message
news:1123532351.488554.167130@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hi all,
>
> Hope you folks don't mind newbie questions here. I am a beginning
> kayaker looking to go out for relatively short (2-3 hours) kayak trips
> on mostly flat water ponds and lakes. I'm looking to buy a kayak that
> is stable (as in unlikely to flip over in flat water), easy to maneuver
> in up to a light wind, and has good back support.
>
> I've been looking around at mainly recreational kayaks, but the thing
> is a friend knows someone who can get me a deal on a Dagger Outlaw
> whitewater kayak:
>
> http://www.outdoorplay.com/store/department3.0.asp?DeptID=148&DeptCode=AR
>
> The most attractive thing about it for me is price. So, my question,
> will this kind of kayak do the job for what I'm looking for? My
> assumption is that it is designed to handle much more than gentle flat
> water, but that using it on flat water would be fine also. Unless there
> is some reason why it wouldn't do well in that situation (tough to
> paddle, flips easily, or whatever)? Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Mike M.
>
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Date: 09 Aug 2005 15:17:30
From: E Gregory
Subject: Re: newbie advice on kayak type
|
Since you mention the Necky Santa Cruz, I hope you won't mind more
questions about it! My paddling is done on sounds, lakes, slow rivers,
and up to level 2 rivers. Like the original poster is considering, I
bought an old whitewater kayak first, because of price and weight (old
fiberglass boat). I can put it on top my car by myself, this is big
since I live alone! Anyway, it's been fun, but when paddling on lake or
slow fat river it occasionally will turn itself right around with very
little that I can do to prevent it! Certainly my paddling inexperience
is part of this problem, but not the whole trouble. If you don't
mind looking goofy and and not in a big hurry to get anywhere the
whitewater boat will do, otherwise keep looking. I figured that you
have to start somewhere and the boats floats very well!
Now to my question, tomorrow I will pick up a used Necky Santa Cruz,
will this boat do ok on a level 2 river? How about on a coastal sound
(NC area)? I'm hoping the Santa Cruz will fit my needs as well as most
boats would, though I realize that you always give up some level of
"goodness" when you expect a boat to do it all. Advice?
Thanks,
Eileen
James Hill wrote:
> Mike,
>
> A whitewater boat would NOT be well-suited to the paddling you hope to do.
> It would take serious effort to keep moving in a straight line, and would be
> a considerable challenge for stability in wind. Only skilled paddlers
> should try to use whitewater boats on flat water.
>
> The Necky Santa Cruz would be fine for what you describe. Also consider the
> Perception America (big open cockpit) or Acadia (smaller cockpit), two
> "recreation" boats I've owned that had reasonable straight-line capabilities
> and excellent primary stability. You might find any of the three used for a
> reasonable price.
>
> If possible, go to a local "demo day", and try everything you can.
>
> Also, consider the best paddle you can afford. After an hour, a heavy,
> inefficient paddle can take ALL the pleasure out of kayaking. Discuss blade
> shape/size, and "swing weight" with your nearest kayak shop. LIGHTER IS
> ALMOST ALWAYS BETTER.
>
> Good luck.
>
> Jim Hill
>
> <mikemass@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1123532351.488554.167130@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>>Hi all,
>>
>>Hope you folks don't mind newbie questions here. I am a beginning
>>kayaker looking to go out for relatively short (2-3 hours) kayak trips
>>on mostly flat water ponds and lakes. I'm looking to buy a kayak that
>>is stable (as in unlikely to flip over in flat water), easy to maneuver
>>in up to a light wind, and has good back support.
>>
>>I've been looking around at mainly recreational kayaks, but the thing
>>is a friend knows someone who can get me a deal on a Dagger Outlaw
>>whitewater kayak:
>>
>>http://www.outdoorplay.com/store/department3.0.asp?DeptID=148&DeptCode=AR
>>
>>The most attractive thing about it for me is price. So, my question,
>>will this kind of kayak do the job for what I'm looking for? My
>>assumption is that it is designed to handle much more than gentle flat
>>water, but that using it on flat water would be fine also. Unless there
>>is some reason why it wouldn't do well in that situation (tough to
>>paddle, flips easily, or whatever)? Any thoughts?
>>
>>Thanks!
>>
>>Mike M.
>>
>
>
>
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Date: 09 Aug 2005 23:35:56
From: John Fereira
Subject: Re: newbie advice on kayak type
|
E Gregory <uepmeg@email.unc.edu > wrote in
news:42f90149$1_2@news1.isis.unc.edu:
> Now to my question, tomorrow I will pick up a used Necky Santa
> Cruz,
> will this boat do ok on a level 2 river? How about on a coastal sound
> (NC area)? I'm hoping the Santa Cruz will fit my needs as well as most
> boats would, though I realize that you always give up some level of
> "goodness" when you expect a boat to do it all. Advice?
A Necky Santa Cruze can handle class 2 rivers provide you have adequate
skills to do so. If the river is at all technical, requiring you to make
quick manoevers to avoid rocks or holes, your paddling skills will be more
important than the boat you're paddling. For many class 2 rapids if you're
pointing downstream you can just paddle hard and blast right through them.
If you don't have much experience though, taking a class that covers
bracing, ruddering strokes, and draw strokes (a hanging draw is very useful
when paddling a "sea" kayak on a river). The Santa Cruz should work well
in the NC coastal sounds provided you don't want to cover long distances
when the wind picks up. For the protected reaches of upper Currituck sound
it would work well though but I'd be hesitant to try and do a crossing of
Oregon Inlet in one.
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Date: 10 Aug 2005 12:46:50
From: E Gregory
Subject: Re: newbie advice on kayak type
|
John Fereira wrote:
> E Gregory <uepmeg@email.unc.edu> wrote in
> news:42f90149$1_2@news1.isis.unc.edu:
>
>
>> Now to my question, tomorrow I will pick up a used Necky Santa
>> Cruz,
>>will this boat do ok on a level 2 river? How about on a coastal sound
>>(NC area)? I'm hoping the Santa Cruz will fit my needs as well as most
>>boats would, though I realize that you always give up some level of
>>"goodness" when you expect a boat to do it all. Advice?
>
>
> A Necky Santa Cruze can handle class 2 rivers provide you have adequate
> skills to do so. If the river is at all technical, requiring you to make
> quick manoevers to avoid rocks or holes, your paddling skills will be more
> important than the boat you're paddling. For many class 2 rapids if you're
> pointing downstream you can just paddle hard and blast right through them.
> If you don't have much experience though, taking a class that covers
> bracing, ruddering strokes, and draw strokes (a hanging draw is very useful
> when paddling a "sea" kayak on a river). The Santa Cruz should work well
> in the NC coastal sounds provided you don't want to cover long distances
> when the wind picks up. For the protected reaches of upper Currituck sound
> it would work well though but I'd be hesitant to try and do a crossing of
> Oregon Inlet in one.
Thanks for the advice. I grew up in Currituck county and expect to
paddle there. I can't even imagine trying to cross Oregon Inlet in a
kayak of any sort, that's some powerful current!!! I'll be looking for
a class (classes) on river paddling. I've been down the Haw a couple of
times in old Phoenix kayak. It was fun, but I definitely have much to
learn! Will be working on the skills part.
Thanks again,
Eileen
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Date: 13 Aug 2005 12:42:27
From: John Fereira
Subject: Re: newbie advice on kayak type
|
E Gregory <uepmeg@email.unc.edu > wrote in
news:42fa2f7c$1_2@news1.isis.unc.edu:
> John Fereira wrote:
>> E Gregory <uepmeg@email.unc.edu> wrote in
>> news:42f90149$1_2@news1.isis.unc.edu:
>>
>>
>>> Now to my question, tomorrow I will pick up a used Necky Santa
>>> Cruz,
>>>will this boat do ok on a level 2 river? How about on a coastal sound
>>>(NC area)? I'm hoping the Santa Cruz will fit my needs as well as
>>>most boats would, though I realize that you always give up some level
>>>of "goodness" when you expect a boat to do it all. Advice?
>>
>>
>> A Necky Santa Cruze can handle class 2 rivers provide you have
>> adequate skills to do so. If the river is at all technical, requiring
>> you to make quick manoevers to avoid rocks or holes, your paddling
>> skills will be more important than the boat you're paddling. For many
>> class 2 rapids if you're pointing downstream you can just paddle hard
>> and blast right through them. If you don't have much experience
>> though, taking a class that covers bracing, ruddering strokes, and
>> draw strokes (a hanging draw is very useful when paddling a "sea"
>> kayak on a river). The Santa Cruz should work well in the NC coastal
>> sounds provided you don't want to cover long distances when the wind
>> picks up. For the protected reaches of upper Currituck sound it would
>> work well though but I'd be hesitant to try and do a crossing of
>> Oregon Inlet in one.
>
>
> Thanks for the advice. I grew up in Currituck county and expect to
> paddle there. I can't even imagine trying to cross Oregon Inlet in a
> kayak of any sort, that's some powerful current!!!
You'd just have to time it right. A slack tide to incoming tide is when
you'd want to go.
> I'll be looking for
> a class (classes) on river paddling. I've been down the Haw a couple
> of times in old Phoenix kayak. It was fun, but I definitely have much
> to learn! Will be working on the skills part.
You might have to travel inland a bit to find a good river paddling course.
Nantahala Outdoor Center (http://www.noc.com/) might be a good place to
check out. If you're looking for a guided tour in the Outer Banks look up
Pam Malec. She used to run the boating dept. at Kitty Hawk Sports and now
runs a B&B (http://www.theoutdoorsinn.com/kayaking.htm). Her book on
paddling the NC coastal area is excellent.
BTW, I don't actually live in the area but I vacation there often and have
paddled there quite a bit.
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Date: 09 Aug 2005 22:45:15
From: Michael Daly
Subject: Re: newbie advice on kayak type
|
On 9-Aug-2005, E Gregory <uepmeg@email.unc.edu > wrote:
> I bought an old whitewater kayak first, because of price and weight (old
> fiberglass boat).
If it's an old fiberglass boat, you could put on a skeg to help with the
tracking.
Mike
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Date: 09 Aug 2005 14:06:23
From: Bib
Subject: Re: newbie advice on kayak type
|
As Jim Hill did in previous post I'd also highly recommend the best paddle
you can afford. The paddles that came with my kayak were OK but after a
couple of hours of paddling in light conditions my arms and my wife's arms
were tied in knots. Read the posts here about paddles making all the
difference and did some research to finally plunk my money down on a pair
of custom made 100% carbon fiber. Fellow who made them asked me many
questions about our paddling, how often, where, type of kayak and so on. If
you reach the point where a custom paddle becomes important, here is URL of
fellow who made mine.
http://eteamz.active.com/paddleshop/news/index.cfm?
Aside from the kayak, and the PFD (personal flotation device - life jacket)
the paddles made all the difference in the world.
--
Big Island Bob
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Date: 09 Aug 2005 23:26:30
From: John Fereira
Subject: Re: newbie advice on kayak type
|
Bib <bib@charter.net > wrote in news:zL2Ke.12374$Tt6.1471@fe04.lga:
> As Jim Hill did in previous post I'd also highly recommend the best
> paddle you can afford. The paddles that came with my kayak were OK but
> after a couple of hours of paddling in light conditions my arms and my
> wife's arms were tied in knots. Read the posts here about paddles
> making all the difference and did some research to finally plunk my
> money down on a pair of custom made 100% carbon fiber. Fellow who made
> them asked me many questions about our paddling, how often, where, type
> of kayak and so on.
I wonder if the answers to your questions made any difference whatsoever in
the paddle he recommended. 100% carbon fiber paddles are expensive, and
while nice to have, a couple of hours paddling in light conditions hardly
justifies spending $300+ for a paddle. There are lots of paddles that are
perfectly adequate between a heavy aluminum shaft paddle and a %100 carbon
fiber paddle. I've been paddling for about nine years with a Lightning Std.
touring paddle, and while I would like to have a carbon paddle the Lightning
still works really well for me. I used it on a four hour paddle (with two
15 minute breaks) last weekend. At the end of the day my arms were not sore
at all. My legs and abdomen were a bit tight though. If your arms are tied
up in knots at the end of the day it's likely due to padlding technique more
so than the paddle. On the other hand, I definately do suggest not
scrimping on a paddle (or PFD) but there are a lot of good, reasonbly light
fiberglass paddles that won't set you back $300-$400.
>
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Date: 10 Aug 2005 01:05:25
From: Bib
Subject: Re: newbie advice on kayak type
|
Routinely paddle part of the year, winter months, off Big Island in Hawaii
and rest of year off New England coast line - Maine down to Mystic in CT.
Most of our paddles are two to three days where we generally average about
20 to 25 nautical miles. We have been on many week long paddles. Beam
width on Klepper double is 36 inches. The paddles that I had made are
longer than "normal" due to width of boat and my upper body length. Ditto
for my wife's paddle. Having the paddles we do allows us to do more with
less effort. They fit our needs perfectly. That is worth the money.
I was not recommending to fellow to buy a 100% carbon fiber paddle. I was
trying to make the point, poorly I see, that you determine your needs for
type of kayak and other equipment such as a paddle and go from there.
Obviously he has little idea of his needs for a paddle as it appears he is
just starting out. But it is helpful to know that there are other paddle
options. My "need" for the paddles I had made was determined by the type
of kayaking we do. His "needs" are not the same as ours but he's looking
for advice and suggestions. The web site I suggested was not a sales
promotion but a place where additional advice and additional information
might be gotten.
We also carry a handheld VHF, a GPS with nautical charts loaded for the
paddle trip, flares, dye markers, mirrors, whistles, leave a float plan,
etc. My son, the white water paddler looks at our gear and shakes his
head. His needs are different than ours.
When I was eight years old I had a paddle made from a broom stick and two
pieces of flat wood nailed to the ends. My kayak was a Mack truck inner
tube. Back then that wooden paddle met my needs perfectly.
--
Big Island Bob
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Date: 13 Aug 2005 13:14:18
From: John Fereira
Subject: Re: newbie advice on kayak type
|
Bib <bib@charter.net > wrote in news:ppcKe.4814$0E5.4071@fe05.lga:
> Routinely paddle part of the year, winter months, off Big Island in
> Hawaii and rest of year off New England coast line - Maine down to
> Mystic in CT. Most of our paddles are two to three days where we
> generally average about 20 to 25 nautical miles. We have been on many
> week long paddles. Beam width on Klepper double is 36 inches. The
> paddles that I had made are longer than "normal" due to width of boat
> and my upper body length. Ditto for my wife's paddle. Having the
> paddles we do allows us to do more with less effort. They fit our
> needs perfectly. That is worth the money.
If you've made your own paddles they probably cost a fraction of what a 100%
carbon paddle costs these days. I frequently use a Greenland style paddle
that probably cost less than $30 to build. A friend of mine originally made
it and gave it to me and I refinished it.
>
> I was not recommending to fellow to buy a 100% carbon fiber paddle. I
> was trying to make the point, poorly I see, that you determine your
> needs for type of kayak and other equipment such as a paddle and go
> from there. Obviously he has little idea of his needs for a paddle as
> it appears he is just starting out. But it is helpful to know that
> there are other paddle options. My "need" for the paddles I had made
> was determined by the type of kayaking we do. His "needs" are not the
> same as ours but he's looking for advice and suggestions. The web site
> I suggested was not a sales promotion but a place where additional
> advice and additional information might be gotten.
I most definitely agree that choosing a paddle should be based on individual
needs. It's just that when the choice is a 100% carbon paddle I have to
wonder how much actual needs are being considered, especially for someone
with little experience. The paddling community has no shortage of gear
heads and I often see an overzealous recommendation for top-of-the-line gear
that might be overkill for an individuals real needs. The paddling
community is certainly not unique in this regard. I've seen it in the
flyfishing community as well.
I would also suggest that many people just getting into the sport are not
really sure what their future needs are going to be. I know I'm not the
only one that bought a first kayak and then after paddling for just a very
short time determined that it was not meeting the needs for the type of
paddling that I was discovering I prefer. Discovering individual needs can
really come with personal experience. Buying a top-of-the-line paddle is a
significant investment and my point is that it may be more prudent to look
in the middle of the range if you're not sure what your paddling needs are
going to be. Some people entering the sport actually do lose interest (I
know it's hard to believe) and then they're stuck with expensive gear.
>
> We also carry a handheld VHF, a GPS with nautical charts loaded for the
> paddle trip, flares, dye markers, mirrors, whistles, leave a float
> plan, etc. My son, the white water paddler looks at our gear and
> shakes his head. His needs are different than ours.
Your needs are also very much different than those of a casual paddler, yet
I often see rec paddlers that appear to be over-equipped. I don't know how
many times I've seen rec paddlers with paddle float on their rear deck but
are paddling a boat without floatbags.
>
> When I was eight years old I had a paddle made from a broom stick and
> two pieces of flat wood nailed to the ends. My kayak was a Mack truck
> inner tube. Back then that wooden paddle met my needs perfectly.
|
| |
Date: 09 Aug 2005 12:27:21
From: Bib
Subject: Re: newbie advice on kayak type
|
Don't know where you are located but I would suggest you contact some local
places that sell/rent kayaks and see if they have any "Give it a paddle"
weekends where you can try out a couple of kayaks. Also suggest you do
google search on kayak websites and books regarding kayaking. Reading and
learning about different kayak hull shapes might just save you money in the
long run. There is also the safety factor. White water kayaks are
designed for white water and paddlers who really understand hydrodynamics
and how to paddle in such conditions. A white water kayak in a flat water
situation in a stiff breeze would be quite unstable for anyone other than a
very experienced paddler. Personally my kayaking is about evenly divided
between ocean and very large lakes. While both places have water and wind,
it is two very different places to paddle in and understand. The same
kayak with the same paddles and paddlers reacts differently, sometimes
subtly and sometimes rather dramatically in both places under what might
seem to be the same conditions.
After much thought, reading and testing out, I opted for a folding kayak
made in German - a Klepper. A Klepper is rather expensive but for my needs
it filled every one and then some. My only regret with the Klepper is that
I did not buy it 25 years ago.
Price is the last thing you should consider at this stage. Learn, read,
test out. Make a list of your needs. Then find kayak models that fit
those needs. Then figure out how you are going to justify spending the
cash to buy the one that meets your needs.
For what it is worth, I bought the Klepper after seeing what 20 year old
used Kleppers went for. Brand new I paid just over $3,800. 20 year old
ones were going for $2,800 to $3,000. Couple year old ones were going for
$3,500. I figured if the Klepper was a disaster and I wanted to get rid of
it, I'd lose a couple hundred dollars in reselling it. Right now I'm
looking for another Klepper - a Quattro - the ultimate in ocean going
stability. The only one I can find in the US used is a five year old one
$200 less than brand new.
Never buy a kayak because of the price. Buy a kayak that meets your needs.
Being on the water is not like being at Disneyland. Every kayak and
kayaker will eventually flip over at the most unexpected moment - Kleppers
included - Captain Cook Monument, Kealakekua Bay, Big Island, HI, 2001,
glassy surface, calm morning and the load shifted in the hull because I was
careless in loading and over we went.
--
Big Island Bob
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Date: 09 Aug 2005 01:03:08
From: No Spam
Subject: Re: newbie advice on kayak type
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Whitewater Kayaks, by design, turn and spin easily. This makes them
usually unsuited to trying to paddle in a straight line for very long.
Yes, you can do it. I do it with a Perception Dancer but it is tiring
trying to keep perfect paddle form to go straight. I bought mine for the
same reason -Price. It works for what is does and is good exercise but I
am currently looking to find a suitable sea kayak for those straight
line trips.
mikemass@hotmail.com wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Hope you folks don't mind newbie questions here. I am a beginning
> kayaker looking to go out for relatively short (2-3 hours) kayak trips
> on mostly flat water ponds and lakes. I'm looking to buy a kayak that
> is stable (as in unlikely to flip over in flat water), easy to maneuver
> in up to a light wind, and has good back support.
>
> I've been looking around at mainly recreational kayaks, but the thing
> is a friend knows someone who can get me a deal on a Dagger Outlaw
> whitewater kayak:
>
> http://www.outdoorplay.com/store/department3.0.asp?DeptID=148&DeptCode=AR
>
> The most attractive thing about it for me is price. So, my question,
> will this kind of kayak do the job for what I'm looking for? My
> assumption is that it is designed to handle much more than gentle flat
> water, but that using it on flat water would be fine also. Unless there
> is some reason why it wouldn't do well in that situation (tough to
> paddle, flips easily, or whatever)? Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Mike M.
>
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Date: 09 Aug 2005 03:47:18
From: Bub
Subject: Re: newbie advice on kayak type
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You asked for opinions...check out a Pungo, Carolina, Necky Santa Cruz or a
Zoar Sport. Zoar sport doesn't do anything real good but does a lot of
diffrent things. At home on lakes, ponds and even rivers. While not a WW
boat or a full sea kayak it fills the in btween spot. Very stable. If you
want a leisure boat for exercise that you can just sit in and not have to
balance or brace all the time Zoar is one to try out. Just my opinion.
Bub
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Date: 08 Aug 2005 20:35:41
From: Drew Cutter
Subject: Re: newbie advice on kayak type
|
If your heart is set on getting a dagger outlaw . The freestyle
abilities of the outlaw , worries me for what you want. See what night
the local shop has for demo night. I got a jackson 4 fun boat that
sounds more of what you want.
mikemass@hotmail.com wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Hope you folks don't mind newbie questions here. I am a beginning
> kayaker looking to go out for relatively short (2-3 hours) kayak trips
> on mostly flat water ponds and lakes. I'm looking to buy a kayak that
> is stable (as in unlikely to flip over in flat water), easy to maneuver
> in up to a light wind, and has good back support.
>
> I've been looking around at mainly recreational kayaks, but the thing
> is a friend knows someone who can get me a deal on a Dagger Outlaw
> whitewater kayak:
>
> http://www.outdoorplay.com/store/department3.0.asp?DeptID=148&DeptCode=AR
>
> The most attractive thing about it for me is price. So, my question,
> will this kind of kayak do the job for what I'm looking for? My
> assumption is that it is designed to handle much more than gentle flat
> water, but that using it on flat water would be fine also. Unless there
> is some reason why it wouldn't do well in that situation (tough to
> paddle, flips easily, or whatever)? Any thoughts?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Mike M.
>
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