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Date: 25 Dec 2006 14:27:50
From: (PeteCresswell)
Subject: Kokatat Dry Suit Neck Seal Replacement?
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Anybody done one of these?
On previous dry suits it's been pretty easy: 20-30 little magnets, lay the neck
on a flat steel surface - like the hood of a car - mate the gasket and the neck
material using the magnets to hold them together with some Kotol/AquaSeal as
glue. 45 minutes max.
But the Kokatat has this outer collar around the base of the seal that seems to
prevent that.
I tried cutting a 3" strip from a 5-gallon poly bucket and then expanding that
inside the neck. But with the strip/neck material as taut as I could get it,
the gasket was still a pretty loose fit. Seems like the gasket needs to be a
snug fit to get a decent glue line. It also seems like, although the material
lays perfectly flat on a flat surface, it doesn't want to lay flat on a
cylindrical surface.
Can anybody offer up some advice? Besides FedEx or UPS...-)
--
PeteCresswell
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Date: 25 Dec 2006 11:43:00
From: Bob Noble
Subject: Re: Kokatat Dry Suit Neck Seal Replacement?
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Seems like a good thing to ask at the www.kokatat.com web site.
--
Bob Noble
www.sonic.net/bnoble
"(PeteCresswell)" <x@y.Invalid > wrote in message
news:t590p2pm7jl4r6oicff2pe2bjqvt5hhq6s@4ax.com...
> Anybody done one of these?
>
> On previous dry suits it's been pretty easy: 20-30 little magnets, lay the
> neck
> on a flat steel surface - like the hood of a car - mate the gasket and the
> neck
> material using the magnets to hold them together with some Kotol/AquaSeal
> as
> glue. 45 minutes max.
>
> But the Kokatat has this outer collar around the base of the seal that
> seems to
> prevent that.
>
> I tried cutting a 3" strip from a 5-gallon poly bucket and then expanding
> that
> inside the neck. But with the strip/neck material as taut as I could get
> it,
> the gasket was still a pretty loose fit. Seems like the gasket needs to
> be a
> snug fit to get a decent glue line. It also seems like, although the
> material
> lays perfectly flat on a flat surface, it doesn't want to lay flat on a
> cylindrical surface.
>
> Can anybody offer up some advice? Besides FedEx or UPS...-)
> --
> PeteCresswell
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Date: 25 Dec 2006 15:28:47
From: (PeteCresswell)
Subject: Re: Kokatat Dry Suit Neck Seal Replacement?
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Per Bob Noble:
>Seems like a good thing to ask at the www.kokatat.com web site.
Sometimes I miss the obvious... Thanks.
They actually did have a couple of one-page instructions on the process. Sounds
like they use the same general approach I used in that they lay parts on a flat
surface instead of inserting a cylindrical object into the neck.
Without any pictures, it's a tough call, but the essential feature of their
approach seems tb the use of a flat disc that the outer collar can be folded
under.
--
PeteCresswell
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Date: 26 Dec 2006 13:57:41
From: Brian Nystrom
Subject: Re: Kokatat Dry Suit Neck Seal Replacement?
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(PeteCresswell) wrote:
> Per Bob Noble:
>> Seems like a good thing to ask at the www.kokatat.com web site.
>
> Sometimes I miss the obvious... Thanks.
>
> They actually did have a couple of one-page instructions on the process. Sounds
> like they use the same general approach I used in that they lay parts on a flat
> surface instead of inserting a cylindrical object into the neck.
>
> Without any pictures, it's a tough call, but the essential feature of their
> approach seems tb the use of a flat disc that the outer collar can be folded
> under.
Yup. I've repaired several of them and it's not difficult once you make
the forms (two discs and a ring). If you intend to repair your own neck
seals going forward, make the forms out of something durable, like 3/8"
plywood, then cover the surfaces that will be exposed to glue with
packing tape. I have a Webshots album with pics and instructions at:
http://community.webshots.com/user/brian_nystrom-reg
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Date: 26 Dec 2006 12:10:29
From: (PeteCresswell)
Subject: Re: Kokatat Dry Suit Neck Seal Replacement?
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Per Brian Nystrom:
>I've repaired several of them and it's not difficult once you make
>the forms (two discs and a ring). If you intend to repair your own neck
>seals going forward, make
Jigsawed the discs, did a trial fit and.... Oops! Looks like Kokatat either
subscribes to a different neck seal standard than my other dry suit makers or
they have their own. The seal I got from NRS (which lines up perfectly with my
Bare Polar...) needs a 7.5"/10" ring instead of a 6.5"/9.5" ring.
So I made a second ring... but discovered what I should have figured out
beforehand: the resultant footprint of the seal doesn't match up well enough
with Kokatat's neck opening.
I think I'll just do the seals on my old Bare, use that, and send the Kokatat
off to an outfit in CA that also does mods - since I also want the belt tunnel
about 3" lower anyhow.
--
PeteCresswell
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Date: 27 Dec 2006 12:37:41
From: Brian Nystrom
Subject: Re: Kokatat Dry Suit Neck Seal Replacement?
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(PeteCresswell) wrote:
> Per Brian Nystrom:
>> I've repaired several of them and it's not difficult once you make
>> the forms (two discs and a ring). If you intend to repair your own neck
>> seals going forward, make
>
> Jigsawed the discs, did a trial fit and.... Oops! Looks like Kokatat either
> subscribes to a different neck seal standard than my other dry suit makers or
> they have their own. The seal I got from NRS (which lines up perfectly with my
> Bare Polar...) needs a 7.5"/10" ring instead of a 6.5"/9.5" ring.
>
> So I made a second ring... but discovered what I should have figured out
> beforehand: the resultant footprint of the seal doesn't match up well enough
> with Kokatat's neck opening.
>
> I think I'll just do the seals on my old Bare, use that, and send the Kokatat
> off to an outfit in CA that also does mods - since I also want the belt tunnel
> about 3" lower anyhow.
Better yet, just order some seals from OS Systems. They definitely fit
and you'll need them eventually anyway. I always try to keep wrist seals
around, just in case. Which reminds me, I need to do mine and the
latex booties.
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Date: 27 Dec 2006 09:12:06
From: (PeteCresswell)
Subject: Re: Kokatat Dry Suit Neck Seal Replacement?
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Per Brian Nystrom:
>Better yet, just order some seals from OS Systems. They definitely fit
>and you'll need them eventually anyway. I always try to keep wrist seals
> around, just in case. Which reminds me, I need to do mine and the
>latex booties.
I think I'll do that. As much as I'd like to get the lower belt tunnel, I
don't think it's worth the turnaround time at this point in the season.
Used the wooden jigs to do the neck on my old Bare Polar and it went like
clockwork. Carpet tape to stabilize things before assembly, 16 of the el-cheapo
plastic spring clamps that you used to clamp it while the AquaSeal went off.
http://www.kayakacademy.com/gasket.html has a Kokatat-compatible neck seal for
$25 and wrists for $10 each.
OTOH, OS Systems not only looks like a class operation - but they also offer the
neck seals in a greater size range.
After looking at OS' offerings, I wish I'd bought my new dry top from OS instead
of Kokatat.
--
PeteCresswell
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Date: 27 Dec 2006 09:53:31
From: (PeteCresswell)
Subject: Re: Kokatat Dry Suit Neck Seal Replacement?
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Per (PeteCresswell):
>Used the wooden jigs
What do you do about overflow sticking to the wood - and breaking the seal with
the double-sided tape? Looking more closely at your pix, it seems like I went
a little overboard with the two-sided tape.... so maybe you didn't have any
problem with that.
K-tat's instructions say something about wrapping everything in waxed paper or
cling wrap, but that seemed to defeat the function of the double-sided tape.
I slipped a wedge made from a utility knife blade with it's cutting edge sanded
flat in there and then pried gently with a screwdriver.
--
PeteCresswell
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Date: 28 Dec 2006 00:53:45
From: Brian Nystrom
Subject: Re: Kokatat Dry Suit Neck Seal Replacement?
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(PeteCresswell) wrote:
> Per (PeteCresswell):
>> Used the wooden jigs
>
> What do you do about overflow sticking to the wood - and breaking the seal with
> the double-sided tape?
I covered the wood surfaces that might get glue on them with clear
plastic packing tape. The glue doesn't stick to it.
> Looking more closely at your pix, it seems like I went
> a little overboard with the two-sided tape.... so maybe you didn't have any
> problem with that.
There are many kinds of double-sided tape and some definitely work
better than others. The last time I did one, the tape left goo all over
everything. The best stuff I've used is a thin plastic that looks like
wide Teflon tape, but I haven't seen it anywhere lately.
> K-tat's instructions say something about wrapping everything in waxed paper or
> cling wrap, but that seemed to defeat the function of the double-sided tape.
I agree with your assessment. Packing tape works better.
> I slipped a wedge made from a utility knife blade with it's cutting edge sanded
> flat in there and then pried gently with a screwdriver.
Whatever works without damaging the seal, right?
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Date: 27 Dec 2006 20:27:14
From: (PeteCresswell)
Subject: Re: Kokatat Dry Suit Neck Seal Replacement?
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Per Brian Nystrom:
>hatever works without damaging the seal, right?
When you order from Offshore, do you specify the standard (0.26")neck seal or
the commercial (0.30")?
--
PeteCresswell
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Date: 28 Dec 2006 13:26:03
From: Brian Nystrom
Subject: Re: Kokatat Dry Suit Neck Seal Replacement?
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(PeteCresswell) wrote:
> Per Brian Nystrom:
>> hatever works without damaging the seal, right?
>
> When you order from Offshore, do you specify the standard (0.26")neck seal or
> the commercial (0.30")?
I've always used the standard seals. I'm not convinced that you gain
anything by making them thicker.
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Date: 26 Dec 2006 23:44:21
From: Jim Michaud
Subject: Re: Kokatat Dry Suit Neck Seal Replacement?
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Hint: Instead of using clamps or magnets try using 2" wide double faced carpet tape. It does a wonderful job of keeping everything
from sliding around after the Aquaseal is applied.
Jim
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Date: 26 Dec 2006 09:22:18
From: (PeteCresswell)
Subject: Re: Kokatat Dry Suit Neck Seal Replacement?
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Per Brian Nystrom:
>Yup. I've repaired several of them and it's not difficult once you make
>the forms (two discs and a ring). If you intend to repair your own neck
>seals going forward, make the forms out of something durable, like 3/8"
>plywood, then cover the surfaces that will be exposed to glue with
>packing tape. I have a Webshots album with pics and instructions at:
>http://community.webshots.com/user/brian_nystrom-reg
Thanks. That describes it very nicely.
One question: when you cut the large disc, did you observe the 10.5" size that
Kokatat calls for, or did you make it a little bigger to allow the small clamps
around the perimeter?
--
PeteCresswell
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Date: 27 Dec 2006 12:31:36
From: Brian Nystrom
Subject: Re: Kokatat Dry Suit Neck Seal Replacement?
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(PeteCresswell) wrote:
> Per Brian Nystrom:
>> Yup. I've repaired several of them and it's not difficult once you make
>> the forms (two discs and a ring). If you intend to repair your own neck
>> seals going forward, make the forms out of something durable, like 3/8"
>> plywood, then cover the surfaces that will be exposed to glue with
>> packing tape. I have a Webshots album with pics and instructions at:
>> http://community.webshots.com/user/brian_nystrom-reg
>
> Thanks. That describes it very nicely.
>
> One question: when you cut the large disc, did you observe the 10.5" size that
> Kokatat calls for, or did you make it a little bigger to allow the small clamps
> around the perimeter?
I used their recommended sizes. Anything larger won't fit in many suits.
You'll see what I mean when you try it.
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