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Main
Date: 13 Feb 2005 21:19:21
From: Frank Bell
Subject: I think it's time for a new newsgroup:
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alt.moyers.politics.environment.christians
~~~~~~~~~~
Theirs is a hidden land; wolf-haunted,
Stormy highlands with perilous paths,
Where mountain torrents plunge through the mists
And flow unseen...
-Beowulf
~~~~~~~~~~
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Date: 17 Feb 2005 17:35:58
From: BCITORGB
Subject: Re: I think it's time for a new newsgroup:
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Wilko says:
================
Jeztz ist mir auch klar wo der nahme Wilf Ratzburg her kommt, kam mir
am
anfang ein bisschen Unkanadisch vor..
==================
wir kanadier kommen in alle farben und formen. ich lebe schon 50 jahre
in kanada, bin aber in nord deutschland geboren. ich bin zum teil
fries... meen modders familie komm' ut freesland...
until recently (the recent influx of chinese and indo immigrants chaged
the numbers drastically), germans were the largest non-anglo immigrant
group in western canada....
maks goot, maker! und shiet op rechtskriven!
fretzw906
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Date: 17 Feb 2005 14:44:05
From: BCITORGB
Subject: Re: I think it's time for a new newsgroup:
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Na jo, den skrif dat as wer dat nederlans.
frtzw906
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Date: 18 Feb 2005 00:20:37
From: Wilko
Subject: Re: I think it's time for a new newsgroup:
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BCITORGB wrote:
> Na jo, den skrif dat as wer dat nederlans.
Dat kwam heel dicht bij normaal Nederlands. :-)
Niet moeilijk om te lezen!
Also "das kam ziemlich nahe an das Niederlaendisch"
"Nicht schwer zu lesen".
:-)
Jeztz ist mir auch klar wo der nahme Wilf Ratzburg her kommt, kam mir am
anfang ein bisschen Unkanadisch vor... :-)
--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko(a t)dse(d o t)nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://wilko.webzone.ru/
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Date: 15 Feb 2005 16:32:22
From: Scott Weiser
Subject: Re: I think it's time for a new newsgroup:
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A Usenet persona calling itself Frank Bell wrote:
> alt.moyers.politics.environment.christians
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~
> Theirs is a hidden land; wolf-haunted,
> Stormy highlands with perilous paths,
> Where mountain torrents plunge through the mists
> And flow unseen...
>
> -Beowulf
> ~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
Oh come on, Frank, it's just a bit of lighthearted diversion to keep the
disks refreshed while the snow flies. As soon as the ice melts, things will
get back to normal.
--
Regards,
Scott Weiser
"I love the Internet, I no longer have to depend on
friends, family and co-workers, I can annoy people WORLDWIDE!" TM
© 2005 Scott Weiser
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Date: 15 Feb 2005 18:11:56
From: Frank Bell
Subject: Re: I think it's time for a new newsgroup:
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> >
> Oh come on, Frank, it's just a bit of lighthearted diversion to keep the
> disks refreshed while the snow flies. As soon as the ice melts, things
will
> get back to normal.
I know, I was just poking fun at how long and drawn out the debate had
gotten :-)
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Date: 15 Feb 2005 10:17:13
From: Bill Tuthill
Subject: Re: I think it's time for a new newsgroup:
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Frank Bell <frank999@fastmail.co.uk > wrote:
> ~~~~~~~~~~
> Theirs is a hidden land; wolf-haunted,
> Stormy highlands with perilous paths,
> Where mountain torrents plunge through the mists
> And flow unseen...
> -Beowulf
> ~~~~~~~~~~
[More Beowulf, from _Culture Made Stupid_ by Tom Weller]
Meanehw=E6l, baccat meaddeh=E6le, monst=E6r lurccen;
Fulle few too many drincce, hie luccen for fyht.
=D0en Hreorfneorht=F0hwr, son of Hrw=E6row=FEheororthwl,
=C6sccen =E6wful jeork to steop outsyd.
=DEud! Bashe! Crasch! Beoom! =D0e bigge gye
Eallum his bon brak, byt his nose offe;
Wicced Godsylla w=E6ld on his asse.
Monster moppe fleor wy=FE eallum men in h=E6lle.
Beowulf in bacceroome fonecall bemaccen w=E6s;
Hearn sond of ruccus s=E6d, "Wh=E6t =FEe helle?"
Graben sheold strang ond swich-bl=E6d sharp
Stond feorth to fyht =F0e grimlic foe.
"Me" Godsylla s=E6d, "mac =F0e minsemete."
Heoro cwyc geten heold wi=FE f=E6med half-nelson
Ond flyng him lic frisbe bac to fen.
Beowulf belly up to meaddeh=E6le bar,
S=E6d, "Ne foe beaten mie f=E6rsom cung-fu."
Eorden cocca-colha yce-coeld, =F0e reol =FEyng.
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Date: 18 Feb 2005 18:45:56
From: Dave Manby
Subject: Re: I think it's time for a new newsgroup:
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Beowulf was/is the title of an Anglo Saxon poem just over 3000 lines
long composed/written probably by several authors between the 6th and
8th century. The oldest surviving manuscript dates to the 10 century.
The poem draws on Anglo Saxon Norse and German legends and Myths.
If you do not want to read the academic translation by Seamus Heaney
then there is also a translation by Rosemary Sutcliff better know for
children's her historical novels like "the Eagle of the Ninth" which is
probably more accessible. (I've been on the phone to my day) I remember
reading Rosemary Sutcliff when I was about 10 great stuff bringing
history to life
In message <5cbc3$42150daf$53e80cac$8789@freeler.nl >, Wilko
<look@in.my.sig > writes
>Dave Manby wrote:
>
>> For those who are interested there is an award winning (or it may
>>have been merely short listed) translation of Beowulf by Seamus Heaney
>>(SP?) came out a couple of years ago. My dad an English teacher now
>>retired raved about it I haven't read it.
>
>So who was or is this Beowulf guy? Someone who lives now who uses that
>kind of old English to write poems or stories?
>
>
--
Dave Manby
Details of the Coruh river and my book "Many Rivers To Run" at
http://www.dmanby.demon.co.uk
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Date: 17 Feb 2005 07:36:15
From: Dave Manby
Subject: Re: I think it's time for a new newsgroup:
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For those who are interested there is an award winning (or it may have
been merely short listed) translation of Beowulf by Seamus Heaney (SP?)
came out a couple of years ago. My dad an English teacher now retired
raved about it I haven't read it.
In message <b8a0d$4213c757$53e80cac$15965@freeler.nl >, Wilko
<look@in.my.sig > writes
>Bill Tuthill wrote:
>
>> Wilko <look@in.my.sig> wrote:
>>
>>>Bill, I have tried to get the wierd characters in this text to
>>>translate to something readible, but I failed miserably. It still
>>>reads like "ye olde English" with some mixed in out of alphabet signs
>>>to me... When reading it out loud some words seem make sense though. :-)
>> The eth (Ðð) and thorn (Þþ) are both pronounced TH.
>> The ligature (Ææ) is like an a-umlaut auf Deutsch (in German)
>> but doesn't have a consistent pronunciation in the above text.
>> Did these characters show up properly?
>
>Yep, and now I start to see what it means. Thanks, it's actually pretty
>funny!
>
>(Und ja, ich habe auch keine probleme um Deutsch zu verstehen, obwohl
>es auch eine fremdsprache ist fuer mich. :-) )
>
>
--
Dave Manby
Details of the Coruh river and my book "Many Rivers To Run" at
http://www.dmanby.demon.co.uk
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Date: 17 Feb 2005 16:51:32
From: Frank Bell
Subject: Re: I think it's time for a new newsgroup:
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> For those who are interested there is an award winning (or it may have
> been merely short listed) translation of Beowulf by Seamus Heaney (SP?)
> came out a couple of years ago. My dad an English teacher now retired
> raved about it I haven't read it.
>
I second that... I picked it up as soon as it came out and loved it. The
interesting thing about it is that Heaney puts the original OE text and his
translation on facing pages so you can see the old and the new.
Interestingly enough, the word "gold" hasn't changed at all. Imagine
that...
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Date: 17 Feb 2005 22:33:31
From: Wilko
Subject: Re: I think it's time for a new newsgroup:
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Dave Manby wrote:
> For those who are interested there is an award winning (or it may have
> been merely short listed) translation of Beowulf by Seamus Heaney (SP?)
> came out a couple of years ago. My dad an English teacher now retired
> raved about it I haven't read it.
So who was or is this Beowulf guy? Someone who lives now who uses that
kind of old English to write poems or stories?
--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko(a t)dse(d o t)nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://wilko.webzone.ru/
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Date: 15 Feb 2005 23:14:26
From: Wilko
Subject: Re: I think it's time for a new newsgroup:
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Bill Tuthill wrote:
> Frank Bell <frank999@fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>>~~~~~~~~~~
>>Theirs is a hidden land; wolf-haunted,
>>Stormy highlands with perilous paths,
>>Where mountain torrents plunge through the mists
>>And flow unseen...
>> -Beowulf
>>~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
> [More Beowulf, from _Culture Made Stupid_ by Tom Weller]
>
> Meanehwæl, baccat meaddehæle, monstær lurccen;
> Fulle few too many drincce, hie luccen for fyht.
> Ðen Hreorfneorhtðhwr, son of Hrwærowþheororthwl,
> Æsccen æwful jeork to steop outsyd.
> Þud! Bashe! Crasch! Beoom! Ðe bigge gye
> Eallum his bon brak, byt his nose offe;
> Wicced Godsylla wæld on his asse.
> Monster moppe fleor wyþ eallum men in hælle.
> Beowulf in bacceroome fonecall bemaccen wæs;
> Hearn sond of ruccus sæd, "Whæt þe helle?"
> Graben sheold strang ond swich-blæd sharp
> Stond feorth to fyht ðe grimlic foe.
> "Me" Godsylla sæd, "mac ðe minsemete."
> Heoro cwyc geten heold wiþ fæmed half-nelson
> Ond flyng him lic frisbe bac to fen.
> Beowulf belly up to meaddehæle bar,
> Sæd, "Ne foe beaten mie færsom cung-fu."
> Eorden cocca-colha yce-coeld, ðe reol þyng.
Bill, I have tried to get the wierd characters in this text to translate
to something readible, but I failed miserably. It still reads like "ye
olde English" with some mixed in out of alphabet signs to me... When
reading it out loud some words seem make sense though. :-)
--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko(a t)dse(d o t)nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://wilko.webzone.ru/
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Date: 16 Feb 2005 09:21:48
From: Bill Tuthill
Subject: Re: I think it's time for a new newsgroup:
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Wilko <look@in.my.sig > wrote:
>> Frank Bell <frank999@fastmail.co.uk> wrote:
>>=20
>>=20
>>>~~~~~~~~~~
>>>Theirs is a hidden land; wolf-haunted,
>>>Stormy highlands with perilous paths,
>>>Where mountain torrents plunge through the mists
>>>And flow unseen...
>>> -Beowulf
>>>~~~~~~~~~~
>>=20
>>=20
>> [More Beowulf, from _Culture Made Stupid_ by Tom Weller]
>>=20
>> Meanehw=E6l, baccat meaddeh=E6le, monst=E6r lurccen;
>> Fulle few too many drincce, hie luccen for fyht.
>> =D0en Hreorfneorht=F0hwr, son of Hrw=E6row=FEheororthwl,
>> =C6sccen =E6wful jeork to steop outsyd.
>> =DEud! Bashe! Crasch! Beoom! =D0e bigge gye
>> Eallum his bon brak, byt his nose offe;
>> Wicced Godsylla w=E6ld on his asse.
>> Monster moppe fleor wy=FE eallum men in h=E6lle.
>> Beowulf in bacceroome fonecall bemaccen w=E6s;
>> Hearn sond of ruccus s=E6d, "Wh=E6t =FEe helle?"
>> Graben sheold strang ond swich-bl=E6d sharp
>> Stond feorth to fyht =F0e grimlic foe.
>> "Me" Godsylla s=E6d, "mac =F0e minsemete."
>> Heoro cwyc geten heold wi=FE f=E6med half-nelson
>> Ond flyng him lic frisbe bac to fen.
>> Beowulf belly up to meaddeh=E6le bar,
>> S=E6d, "Ne foe beaten mie f=E6rsom cung-fu."
>> Eorden cocca-colha yce-coeld, =F0e reol =FEyng.
> Bill, I have tried to get the wierd characters in this text to translat=
e=20
> to something readible, but I failed miserably. It still reads like "ye=20
> olde English" with some mixed in out of alphabet signs to me... When=20
> reading it out loud some words seem make sense though. :-)
The eth (=D0=F0) and thorn (=DE=FE) are both pronounced TH.
The ligature (=C6=E6) is like an a-umlaut auf Deutsch (in German)
but doesn't have a consistent pronunciation in the above text.
Did these characters show up properly?
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Date: 16 Feb 2005 23:21:08
From: Wilko
Subject: Re: I think it's time for a new newsgroup:
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Bill Tuthill wrote:
> Wilko <look@in.my.sig> wrote:
>
>>Bill, I have tried to get the wierd characters in this text to translate
>>to something readible, but I failed miserably. It still reads like "ye
>>olde English" with some mixed in out of alphabet signs to me... When
>>reading it out loud some words seem make sense though. :-)
>
>
> The eth (Ðð) and thorn (Þþ) are both pronounced TH.
> The ligature (Ææ) is like an a-umlaut auf Deutsch (in German)
> but doesn't have a consistent pronunciation in the above text.
> Did these characters show up properly?
Yep, and now I start to see what it means. Thanks, it's actually pretty
funny!
(Und ja, ich habe auch keine probleme um Deutsch zu verstehen, obwohl es
auch eine fremdsprache ist fuer mich. :-) )
--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko(a t)dse(d o t)nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://wilko.webzone.ru/
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Date: 15 Feb 2005 09:58:49
From: BCITORGB
Subject: Re: I think it's time for a new newsgroup:
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TnT says:
===============
he was just using the Christians as convienent
whipping boys.
=====================
I may be wrong on this so feel free to correct me: I was under the
impression that he was (is?) an ordained minister.
frtzw906
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Date: 15 Feb 2005 09:50:52
From: BCITORGB
Subject: Re: I think it's time for a new newsgroup:
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google-groups provides that opportunity:
try: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/boatspaddleOT
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Date: 15 Feb 2005 00:52:19
From: Tinkerntom
Subject: Re: I think it's time for a new newsgroup:
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KMAN wrote:
> in article 42118B93.8090604@shentel.net, Frederick Burroughs at
> riburr@shentel.net wrote on 2/15/05 12:41 AM:
>
> > Frank Bell wrote:
> >
> >> alt.moyers.politics.environment.christians
> >>
> >
> > In originally posting the article for discussion, I was hoping the
> > thread would be more directed to the environment. I should have
> > guessed religion and politics will have weighed in by way of heavy
> > manners.
> >
> > Still, I think paddlers are in a unique position by way of their
hobby
> > to observe the environment first-hand. I plan to post a list of
> > environmental concerns that affect me directly in the rivers where
I
> > paddle.
> >
> > In the mean time, since we're snared in a web of politics,
environment
> > and Christianity, there are examples of pro-environment Christian
> > activism.
>
> They could make a huge and meaningful contribution by simply giving
over to
> environmental groups the massive amounts of property and wealth they
have
> accumulated throughout history. I'm sure God would heartily approve.
I am sure they will be more than willing to do that, just after the
last tree is cut down. OOps let the cat out of the bag! TnT
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Date: 15 Feb 2005 00:41:39
From: Frederick Burroughs
Subject: Re: I think it's time for a new newsgroup:
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Frank Bell wrote:
> alt.moyers.politics.environment.christians
>
In originally posting the article for discussion, I was hoping the
thread would be more directed to the environment. I should have
guessed religion and politics will have weighed in by way of heavy
manners.
Still, I think paddlers are in a unique position by way of their hobby
to observe the environment first-hand. I plan to post a list of
environmental concerns that affect me directly in the rivers where I
paddle.
In the mean time, since we're snared in a web of politics, environment
and Christianity, there are examples of pro-environment Christian
activism. Recently, a Roman Catholic nun was murdered in Brazil.
Sister Dorothy Stang championed the rights of the poor and worked to
prevent deforestation of the rain forest; See AP article:
http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050214/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/brazil_missionary_killed_2
or
http://tinyurl.com/5qd7a
Also, the National Council of Churches has accepted responsibility for
situations of ecological destruction and admits to a "theological
crisis" by adhering to a "false gospel" as concerns the environment.
The Council has released a very interesting open letter to its
members; See:
http://www.ncccusa.org/news/14.02.05theologicalstatement.html
--
Burn the land and boil the sea
You can't take the sky from me
- From "Ballad of Serenity" by Joss Whedon
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Date: 15 Feb 2005 01:10:13
From: KMAN
Subject: Re: I think it's time for a new newsgroup:
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in article 42118B93.8090604@shentel.net, Frederick Burroughs at
riburr@shentel.net wrote on 2/15/05 12:41 AM:
> Frank Bell wrote:
>
>> alt.moyers.politics.environment.christians
>>
>
> In originally posting the article for discussion, I was hoping the
> thread would be more directed to the environment. I should have
> guessed religion and politics will have weighed in by way of heavy
> manners.
>
> Still, I think paddlers are in a unique position by way of their hobby
> to observe the environment first-hand. I plan to post a list of
> environmental concerns that affect me directly in the rivers where I
> paddle.
>
> In the mean time, since we're snared in a web of politics, environment
> and Christianity, there are examples of pro-environment Christian
> activism.
They could make a huge and meaningful contribution by simply giving over to
environmental groups the massive amounts of property and wealth they have
accumulated throughout history. I'm sure God would heartily approve.
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Date: 14 Feb 2005 18:04:40
From: Tinkerntom
Subject: Re: I think it's time for a new newsgroup:
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Frank Bell wrote:
> > >
> > > Well, that wasn't really my point; liberal or conservative, there
are
> > two
> > > sides to every debate. I was just poking fun at how long the
debate
> > has
> > > continued... ;-)
> >
> > Funny, I thought we were just getting started, and here now you
started
> > another thread for us to keep track of. That's not Funny! TnT
> >
>
> Yeah, shoulda just left it alone... :-)
I would mention that I did go out earlier and check on my boats and do
a little cockpit adjusting myself. So the prognosis is for things to
improve with sunshine and warmer days. The ice is off the lake, though
still plenty cold. You've got to be careful going out to early, because
the lakes turn over. Does that occur elsewhere or just out here? TnT
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Date: 14 Feb 2005 20:22:44
From: Frank Bell
Subject: Re: I think it's time for a new newsgroup:
|
>
> I would mention that I did go out earlier and check on my boats and do
> a little cockpit adjusting myself. So the prognosis is for things to
> improve with sunshine and warmer days. The ice is off the lake, though
> still plenty cold. You've got to be careful going out to early, because
> the lakes turn over. Does that occur elsewhere or just out here? TnT
>
Spring is right around the corner... Unfortunately pour moi, I love winter
and am depressed by the prospect of spring, much less summer! Give me long,
dark nights and deep, snowy forests any day of the week. And on this
Valentines Day, my love has rejected me; temperatures today reached 60
degrees Fahrenheit. But as you say, boating season is approaching, and
that's something, anyway!
According to NALMS, spring turnover happens most frequently in lakes located
within temperate zones where winter temperatures are low enough to freeze
the lake surface...
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Date: 14 Feb 2005 17:33:43
From: Tinkerntom
Subject: Re: I think it's time for a new newsgroup:
|
Frank Bell wrote:
> > I agree. This Moyers thing is taking up too much space and time. He
is a
> > liberal with an antagonistic attitude toward any conservative.
What he
> > has to say is of no importance to the welfare of the U.S..
> >
>
> Well, that wasn't really my point; liberal or conservative, there are
two
> sides to every debate. I was just poking fun at how long the debate
has
> continued... ;-)
Funny, I thought we were just getting started, and here now you started
another thread for us to keep track of. That's not Funny! TnT
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Date: 14 Feb 2005 19:41:05
From: Frank Bell
Subject: Re: I think it's time for a new newsgroup:
|
> >
> > Well, that wasn't really my point; liberal or conservative, there are
> two
> > sides to every debate. I was just poking fun at how long the debate
> has
> > continued... ;-)
>
> Funny, I thought we were just getting started, and here now you started
> another thread for us to keep track of. That's not Funny! TnT
>
Yeah, shoulda just left it alone... :-)
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Date: 14 Feb 2005 17:09:37
From: Tinkerntom
Subject: Re: I think it's time for a new newsgroup:
|
Lynn Tegrity wrote:
> I agree. This Moyers thing is taking up too much space and time. He
is a
> liberal with an antagonistic attitude toward any conservative. What
he
> has to say is of no importance to the welfare of the U.S..
>
> Lynn
>
> Frank Bell wrote:
> > alt.moyers.politics.environment.christians
> >
> > ~~~~~~~~~~
> > Theirs is a hidden land; wolf-haunted,
> > Stormy highlands with perilous paths,
> > Where mountain torrents plunge through the mists
> > And flow unseen...
> >
> > -Beowulf
> > ~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> >
> >
My point exactly, he was just using the Christians as convienent
whipping boys. That has been done before in history, with expected
results. TnT
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Date: 14 Feb 2005 19:08:59
From: Frank Bell
Subject: Re: I think it's time for a new newsgroup:
|
>
> My point exactly, he was just using the Christians as convienent
> whipping boys. That has been done before in history, with expected
> results. TnT
>
OK... can we please take this debate to
alt.moyers.politics.environment.christians? Pretty please??
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Date: 15 Feb 2005 00:59:11
From: Lynn Tegrity
Subject: Re: I think it's time for a new newsgroup:
|
I agree. This Moyers thing is taking up too much space and time. He is a
liberal with an antagonistic attitude toward any conservative. What he
has to say is of no importance to the welfare of the U.S..
Lynn
Frank Bell wrote:
> alt.moyers.politics.environment.christians
>
> ~~~~~~~~~~
> Theirs is a hidden land; wolf-haunted,
> Stormy highlands with perilous paths,
> Where mountain torrents plunge through the mists
> And flow unseen...
>
> -Beowulf
> ~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>
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Date: 14 Feb 2005 19:06:33
From: Frank Bell
Subject: Re: I think it's time for a new newsgroup:
|
> I agree. This Moyers thing is taking up too much space and time. He is a
> liberal with an antagonistic attitude toward any conservative. What he
> has to say is of no importance to the welfare of the U.S..
>
Well, that wasn't really my point; liberal or conservative, there are two
sides to every debate. I was just poking fun at how long the debate has
continued... ;-)
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