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Main
Date: 16 Dec 2005 11:52:08
From: Bill Tuthill
Subject: Grand Canyon pix
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Here are some excellent pictures and commentary (not mine,
9 pages total) from a Grand Canyon trip last month:
http://nccreeks.com/grand/
Since this newsgroup is mostly echo-noise between two guys
now, I doubt this announcement will overburden their server.
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Date: 18 Dec 2005 00:28:01
From: Wilko
Subject: Re: Grand Canyon pix
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Bill Tuthill wrote:
> Here are some excellent pictures and commentary (not mine,
> 9 pages total) from a Grand Canyon trip last month:
>
> http://nccreeks.com/grand/
Fun linke, Bill!
Looks like Leland Davis his trip all right. Leland used to be a frequent
poster on RBP a while ago:http://www.angelfire.com/bc/rbp/dir/leland.html
Nowadays he can be found on Boatertalk every now and then.
> Since this newsgroup is mostly echo-noise between two guys
> now, I doubt this announcement will overburden their server.
Yeah, I don't mind the low frequency posts between posters, but all this
trolling and responding to the troll sure becomes dull very quickly. I
wonder if anyone else responds to the troll?
Oh well, good to see some familiar names around here! :-)
Did a fun boating trip today on a nice creek with snow falling all
around us, creating a nice winter wonderland scenery! I took a couple of
pictures, I hope to have them developed and maybe even scanned this
coming week. A pity I ran out of film after 6 pictures... Next time I'll
take another film!
--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko(a t)dse(d o t)nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://wilko.webzone.ru/
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Date: 18 Dec 2005 04:12:36
From: RkyMtnHootOwl
Subject: Re: Grand Canyon pix
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On Sun, 18 Dec 2005 00:28:01 +0100, Wilko wrote:
> Bill Tuthill wrote:
>> Here are some excellent pictures and commentary (not mine,
>> 9 pages total) from a Grand Canyon trip last month:
>>
>> http://nccreeks.com/grand/
>
> Fun linke, Bill!
>
> Looks like Leland Davis his trip all right. Leland used to be a frequent
> poster on RBP a while ago:http://www.angelfire.com/bc/rbp/dir/leland.html
>
> Nowadays he can be found on Boatertalk every now and then.
>
>> Since this newsgroup is mostly echo-noise between two guys
>> now, I doubt this announcement will overburden their server.
>
> Yeah, I don't mind the low frequency posts between posters, but all this
> trolling and responding to the troll sure becomes dull very quickly. I
> wonder if anyone else responds to the troll?
>
> Oh well, good to see some familiar names around here! :-)
>
> Did a fun boating trip today on a nice creek with snow falling all
> around us, creating a nice winter wonderland scenery! I took a couple of
> pictures, I hope to have them developed and maybe even scanned this
> coming week. A pity I ran out of film after 6 pictures... Next time I'll
> take another film!
Bill & Wilko, I will write this in response to what you have posted,
and hope you all will hear what I am trying to say.
First off Bill I really enjoyed the pictures and the commentary. Since
I got into paddling, I have thought that an extended trip through the
Grand Canyon would be the trip of a lifetime. I have camped on the rim
numerous times, and find the light and shadow displays awesome. The
first time I camped as a child, was at the Grand Canyon, so it is sort
of like my first love. I have never forgotten that trip, and it laid a
foundation for 45 years of camping joy.
The last time I was there, it was early spring, when there was little
traffic like in the summer, and on a warm spring day, just a really
nice place to relax. The green grass and flowers were everywhere, and
we saw lots of young wildlife. I suppose there is not a lot of
relaxing when you are down on the water, at least in the rapids,
though it seems there must be long flat areas where you just drift
along.
I have heard that even during the summer, that the water is cold these
days, being fed from the depths of Lake Powell, so it must be really
cold during the winter when the cold air settles in the canyon.
Nothing was said about other groups being on the river at the same
time, so do you know is it hard to get off-season river permits? It
appears that this would be a totally different experience than the
main summer season. More gentle and quiet. Contemplative!
Now Wilko, you recently identified me as a pest, and not a troll, and
I take that as a compliment! Maybe only half a step above, but still a
compliment. I really did come back to the NG wanting to have a
friendlier time, and found that the first thing I posted was trolled
all over. I tried posting OT content, humor, stayed away from religion
and politics, encouraged one in particular the opportunity to do
likewise, took his insults as lightly as possible, and still found
that no matter what I said, it attracted lightening like a lightening
rod.
I had hopes that I could enter into a meaningful conversation with the
other. I will also admit as time progressed, that I was willing to
entertain his activity, in so much as no one else was posting here on
the NG. It became sort of a one-up-man-ship game. However I would much
prefer a positive thread such as this one. At the same time I found
that I was hesitant to post to these other threads, because that would
just attract the above activity, and spoil it for you all. So I
figured there may be some benefit for me to run interferance
elsewhere, and keep him busy there. At least then he does not bother
you all on some of the other threads.
I know that this uses all of your's bandwidth, as it does mine. I am
on limited bandwidth, in as much as I am using a free server at this
time, so I have been cut off on a daily basis, and come to understand
more the issues involved in using the newsreader services. Previously
when I posted from Google, I did not totally understand how it all
worked from this side. Now that I am contemplating the benefit of
subscribing to a service, I realize my money will be on the line as
yours has been.
I have read on your website about dealing with trolls, and I suppose
this is wisdom that you have learned from previous personal
experiences, - not to answer a troll, ignore the troll. Well I am
willing to try doing this, and we will see where it ends up. I hope to
have meaningful converstions with all of you, and that includes in
particular, Oc1, riverman, John F., Wilko, and all the others from
last year that I probably torqued off.
However, as much as I do not desire to be ignored, neither do I desire
to be condescended to. Recently when riverman was giving me a few
licks with the riverman' clue bat, I responded with a little pointed
prose! I understand that some of you have been around not only the RBP
for a long time, but also the sport of paddling. I am sure that you
know more than I will ever know about paddling, and I have much to
learn from you. I do not desire to cut myself off from you as a
learning resourse.
However neither do I feel that my position on this group, or for that
matter any discussion group, to be one where I just sit and listen to
the "great ones". As I have surfed, and lurked around (in NGs since
the early '80s), I have found that it seems most NG's have resident
experts that have been around since the beginning of time. They are
constantly spinning and weaving their ownership of the group, such
that noone else can really ever get in the conversational life of the
group.
Typically it seems there is a core group of 10 to 20 alpha types, and
the rest are expected to just be groupies. Also what I have found is
that as groups go through genesis, the groupies eventually fall off,
and the level of interest and participation without the adoring
audience falters as well. It seems to be a normal and healthy
cleansing process to have people move on as they develope new
interests and circles of friends. Though I miss some of the
individuals that I have met along the way, I usually can find them
elsewhere, and continue a friendship.
If I came in here as a Rhino in a porceline factory, it is because I
found a NG with a subject that I was really interested in and I was
not willing to be subject to the above rules of NG participation. If I
stepped on some toes, I will apologize profusely, and only request
that in the future, that you not put your toes in jeapordy, by being
unwilling to move them quicker. I realize that some of you have been
standing here in the group for a long time, but I see it more as a
dance, where we all have to get out on the floor, and each dance is
new, and noone owns their corner of the dance floor. If that is a
disturbing thought to you, I would suggest that maybe you need to get
your toes stepped on more often.
So the prose was not meant as an attack on the integrity of the
riverman or those that preceded or followed him, but as a statement
that I reserve the right to be me today, and not constrained by how it
was yesterday. If I make a comment on such as regarding the photos of
this thread, it is because that is how I see it today. If you would
like to influence my vision, please don't blind me with the brillance
of your past enlightenments, but encourage me to open my eyes wider to
see more of this wonderful experience of paddling, that I only regret
I waited so long to enjoy myself.
Wilko, I realize that you and others may already be in ignore mode,
but I also know that there may be many others out there who will read
this, and I can only encourage you to come participate in this NG. I
seriously desire to hear from all of you, and together learn from our
mutual experiences. I am sure there are other lurkers out there, and I
know that it can be hard to break into an established group and figure
out the geo-political demographics of a group, but it is worth the
effort, and the ride is a blast especially when it comes to paddling
and the RBP.
RkyMtnHootOwl OvO
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Date: 18 Dec 2005 11:06:37
From: KMAN
Subject: Re: Grand Canyon pix
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in article 16ycfkyw3oklt.1tuva3zuzjpa8.dlg@40tude.net, RkyMtnHootOwl at
rkymtnhoothootowl@hotmail.com wrote on 12/18/05 6:12 AM:
> Bill & Wilko, I will write this in response to what you have posted,
> and hope you all will hear what I am trying to say.
Warning: such a preface from Tinkernhootowl is almost always a prelude to
kookery!
> Now Wilko, you recently identified me as a pest, and not a troll
They are both wrong.
You are more of what is known as a "netkook."
> I take that as a compliment!
Thus proving rather neatly that netkook is the most accurate descriptor.
> I really did come back to the NG wanting to have a
> friendlier time
And yet you didn't make any effort to enable that outcome!
> and found that the first thing I posted was trolled
> all over. I tried posting OT content, humor, stayed away from religion
> and politics, encouraged one in particular the opportunity to do
> likewise, took his insults as lightly as possible, and still found
> that no matter what I said, it attracted lightening like a lightening
> rod.
I know this is likely a key aspect of your netkookness, but do you think it
is possible that it is internal rather than external forces that are
bringing about this result?
> I had hopes that I could enter into a meaningful conversation with the
> other. I will also admit as time progressed, that I was willing to
> entertain his activity, in so much as no one else was posting here on
> the NG. It became sort of a one-up-man-ship game. However I would much
> prefer a positive thread such as this one. At the same time I found
> that I was hesitant to post to these other threads, because that would
> just attract the above activity, and spoil it for you all.
Another aspect of netkookness. Did anyone else ask for your help in this
way? Hm? No, I don't think so. Thus you are yet again setting yourself up as
a false god.
> So I
> figured there may be some benefit for me to run interferance
> elsewhere, and keep him busy there. At least then he does not bother
> you all on some of the other threads.
All bow to the false god of Tinkernhootowl!
> I know that this uses all of your's bandwidth, as it does mine. I am
> on limited bandwidth, in as much as I am using a free server at this
> time, so I have been cut off on a daily basis, and come to understand
> more the issues involved in using the newsreader services. Previously
> when I posted from Google, I did not totally understand how it all
> worked from this side. Now that I am contemplating the benefit of
> subscribing to a service, I realize my money will be on the line as
> yours has been.
It is quite possible to post from google without doing so in an irritating
way. It just takes a few minutes to figure it out. Seek help.
> I have read on your website about dealing with trolls, and I suppose
> this is wisdom that you have learned from previous personal
> experiences, - not to answer a troll, ignore the troll. Well I am
> willing to try doing this, and we will see where it ends up. I hope to
> have meaningful converstions with all of you, and that includes in
> particular, Oc1, riverman, John F., Wilko, and all the others from
> last year that I probably torqued off.
This is deja vu all over again!
> However, as much as I do not desire to be ignored, neither do I desire
> to be condescended to. Recently when riverman was giving me a few
> licks with the riverman' clue bat, I responded with a little pointed
> prose! I understand that some of you have been around not only the RBP
> for a long time, but also the sport of paddling. I am sure that you
> know more than I will ever know about paddling, and I have much to
> learn from you. I do not desire to cut myself off from you as a
> learning resourse.
>
> However neither do I feel that my position on this group, or for that
> matter any discussion group, to be one where I just sit and listen to
> the "great ones". As I have surfed, and lurked around (in NGs since
> the early '80s), I have found that it seems most NG's have resident
> experts that have been around since the beginning of time. They are
> constantly spinning and weaving their ownership of the group, such
> that noone else can really ever get in the conversational life of the
> group.
That's particularly the case in an arse-pucker style of group like RPB. But
you aren't going to make any headway on that in your current netkook style.
You've got the sucking up part right, but you always ruin it with your
netkookisms.
> Typically it seems there is a core group of 10 to 20 alpha types, and
> the rest are expected to just be groupies.
Correct.
> Also what I have found is
> that as groups go through genesis, the groupies eventually fall off,
> and the level of interest and participation without the adoring
> audience falters as well.
Commonly.
> It seems to be a normal and healthy
> cleansing process to have people move on as they develope new
> interests and circles of friends. Though I miss some of the
> individuals that I have met along the way, I usually can find them
> elsewhere, and continue a friendship.
>
> If I came in here as a Rhino in a porceline factory
Well stated, but I think that would be your impact in most any group.
> it is because I
> found a NG with a subject that I was really interested in and I was
> not willing to be subject to the above rules of NG participation. If I
> stepped on some toes, I will apologize profusely, and only request
> that in the future, that you not put your toes in jeapordy, by being
> unwilling to move them quicker. I realize that some of you have been
> standing here in the group for a long time, but I see it more as a
> dance, where we all have to get out on the floor, and each dance is
> new, and noone owns their corner of the dance floor. If that is a
> disturbing thought to you, I would suggest that maybe you need to get
> your toes stepped on more often.
And you should probably just do what you say you are going to do instead of
constantly blathering about how you are going to do it. This is a big part
of your netkookery. You are constatly overstating the importance of your own
actions and blathering about them endlessly to boot.
> So the prose was not meant as an attack on the integrity of the
> riverman or those that preceded or followed him, but as a statement
> that I reserve the right to be me today, and not constrained by how it
> was yesterday. If I make a comment on such as regarding the photos of
> this thread, it is because that is how I see it today. If you would
> like to influence my vision, please don't blind me with the brillance
> of your past enlightenments, but encourage me to open my eyes wider to
> see more of this wonderful experience of paddling, that I only regret
> I waited so long to enjoy myself.
Again, the blathering, Tinkernhoot. The blathering. It can't help but piss
people off.
> Wilko, I realize that you and others may already be in ignore mode,
> but I also know that there may be many others out there who will read
> this, and I can only encourage you to come participate in this NG.
On this point you are most definitely incorrect. Netkooks are a disincentive
to newcomers.
> seriously desire to hear from all of you, and together learn from our
> mutual experiences. I am sure there are other lurkers out there, and I
> know that it can be hard to break into an established group and figure
> out the geo-political demographics of a group, but it is worth the
> effort, and the ride is a blast especially when it comes to paddling
> and the RBP.
>
> RkyMtnHootOwl OvO
Geezuskeerist vOv
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Date: 16 Dec 2005 17:50:39
From: Bill
Subject: Re: Grand Canyon pix
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That looked like a GOOD time!
Thanks for the link
"Bill Tuthill" <can@spam.co > wrote in message news:43a31ae8@news.meer.net...
> Here are some excellent pictures and commentary (not mine,
> 9 pages total) from a Grand Canyon trip last month:
>
> http://nccreeks.com/grand/
>
> Since this newsgroup is mostly echo-noise between two guys
> now, I doubt this announcement will overburden their server.
>
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Date: 16 Dec 2005 19:59:08
From: Al Kubeluis
Subject: Re: Grand Canyon pix
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Bill Tuthill wrote:
> Here are some excellent pictures and commentary (not mine,
> 9 pages total) from a Grand Canyon trip last month:
>
> http://nccreeks.com/grand/
>
> Since this newsgroup is mostly echo-noise between two guys
> now, I doubt this announcement will overburden their server.
>
Bill,
Great pictures and video. Thanks.
Al
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Date: 16 Dec 2005 17:59:38
From: Socemdog
Subject: Re: Grand Canyon pix
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Thanks, Bill for the great link. A fabulous photo/video essay! Who was the
photog?
Also, thanks for the diversion . . .
Robin
"Bill Tuthill" <can@spam.co > wrote in message news:43a31ae8@news.meer.net...
> Here are some excellent pictures and commentary (not mine,
> 9 pages total) from a Grand Canyon trip last month:
>
> http://nccreeks.com/grand/
>
> Since this newsgroup is mostly echo-noise between two guys
> now, I doubt this announcement will overburden their server.
>
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Date: 16 Dec 2005 18:30:46
From: Bill Tuthill
Subject: Re: Grand Canyon pix
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Leland Davis is the author and photographer, I believe.
He appears to be the author of a river guidebook to N Carolina.
Socemdog <Socemdog@(nolongeraol)comcast.net > wrote:
> Thanks, Bill for the great link. A fabulous photo/video essay! Who was the
> photog? Also, thanks for the diversion . . .
> Robin
>
>> Here are some excellent pictures and commentary (not mine,
>> 9 pages total) from a Grand Canyon trip last month:
>>
>> http://nccreeks.com/grand/
>>
>> Since this newsgroup is mostly echo-noise between two guys
>> now, I doubt this announcement will overburden their server.
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Date: 16 Dec 2005 22:25:46
From: Socemdog
Subject: Re: Grand Canyon pix
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I know who Leland is - one of the great extreme boaters from Western North
Carolina. I know he wasn't in raft!!
"Bill Tuthill" <can@spam.co > wrote in message news:43a37855@news.meer.net...
> Leland Davis is the author and photographer, I believe.
> He appears to be the author of a river guidebook to N Carolina.
>
> Socemdog <Socemdog@(nolongeraol)comcast.net> wrote:
> > Thanks, Bill for the great link. A fabulous photo/video essay! Who was
the
> > photog? Also, thanks for the diversion . . .
> > Robin
> >
> >> Here are some excellent pictures and commentary (not mine,
> >> 9 pages total) from a Grand Canyon trip last month:
> >>
> >> http://nccreeks.com/grand/
> >>
> >> Since this newsgroup is mostly echo-noise between two guys
> >> now, I doubt this announcement will overburden their server.
>
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Date: 18 Dec 2005 15:54:05
From: Wilko
Subject: Re: Grand Canyon pix
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Socemdog wrote:
> I know who Leland is - one of the great extreme boaters from Western North
> Carolina. I know he wasn't in raft!!
Robin, have you talked to Leland recently? (BTW: he's wearing a beard in
those pictures) He's definately into rafting as well!
Considering everything he's paddled so far, I'm not at all surprised by
him rafting. :-)
Wilko
--
Wilko van den Bergh wilko(a t)dse(d o t)nl
Eindhoven The Netherlands Europe
---Look at the possibilities, don't worry about the limitations.---
http://wilko.webzone.ru/
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Date: 18 Dec 2005 23:10:32
From: Noone
Subject: Re: Grand Canyon pix
|
--------------5A23585B3D1D8C2E26E8B47D
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Wilko wrote:
> Socemdog wrote:
> > I know who Leland is - one of the great extreme boaters from Western North
> > Carolina. I know he wasn't in raft!!
>
> Robin, have you talked to Leland recently? (BTW: he's wearing a beard in
> those pictures) He's definately into rafting as well!
>
> Considering everything he's paddled so far, I'm not at all surprised by
> him rafting. :-)
>
> Wilko
>
Good to see everyone gives in to pushing rubber sooner or later.
Blakely
--------------5A23585B3D1D8C2E26E8B47D
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en" >
<html >
<br >Wilko wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE >Socemdog wrote:
<br >> I know who Leland is - one of the great extreme boaters from Western
North
<br >> Carolina. I know he wasn't in raft!!
<p >Robin, have you talked to Leland recently? (BTW: he's wearing a beard
in
<br >those pictures) He's definately into rafting as well!
<p >Considering everything he's paddled so far, I'm not at all surprised
by
<br >him rafting. :-)
<p >Wilko
<br ><a href="http://wilko.webzone.ru/"></a> </blockquote>
Good to see everyone gives in to pushing rubber sooner or later.
<p >Blakely
<br > </html>
--------------5A23585B3D1D8C2E26E8B47D--
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Date: 17 Dec 2005 15:07:34
From: Bill Tuthill
Subject: Re: Grand Canyon pix
|
Socemdog <Socemdog@(nolongeraol)comcast.net > wrote:
>>
>> >> http://nccreeks.com/grand/
>> >
>> > Thanks, Bill for the great link. A fabulous photo/video essay!
>> > Who was the photog? Also, thanks for the diversion... > Robin
>
>> Leland Davis is the author and photographer, I believe.
>> He appears to be the author of a river guidebook to N Carolina.
>
> I know who Leland is - one of the great extreme boaters from
> Western North Carolina. I know he wasn't in raft!!
Are you sure that's not Northern West Carolina?
Au contraire, the guy rowing the big Chub seems to be the narrator,
and he never appears in a picture until page next6.html, standing
in front of the Thunder River in a picture entitled "leland..."
BTW, the Thunder River is one of only a few rivers in the world
that flows into a creek, Tapeats Creek.
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