Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

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Date: 12 Jul 2005 08:31:15
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

I actually live in an Arab neighborhood...but all these security
precautions are making me ticked off! Sorry if folks are offended, but
I'm becoming increasingly resentful myself...was looking forward to
paddling and taking pictures, and now feel inconvenienced just by the
thought that I'd better be careful of what I do! I know my anger's
misplaced, but you know, it'd be soooooo much easier if these guys did
everyone a favor and just stayed the hell home, or at least stop taking
goddamned pictures of landmarks!

I know that sounds very funny...@#$%!!

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/12/nyregion/12bridge.html

Two men seen taking pictures of the George Washington Bridge from an
inflatable raft in the Hudson River yesterday afternoon were taken into
custody by the police when they came ashore.

The police said last night that no arrests had been made, but Sgt.
Brian Mullen of the 34th Precinct said that charges against the men,
who were not identified, were pending. One possible charge was
unauthorized use of the raft in the wrong place, he said.

Around 4:15 p.m., a 911 call reported that the men, who the police said
appeared to be of Middle Eastern descent, were taking pictures near the
bridge. Hundreds of police officers, in boats, a helicopter and on
foot, descended on the river and the Dyckman Street marina. They
impounded the raft and another one nearby.

Date: 19 Jul 2005 08:54:08
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

What's makes things quintubaly (quintubably??) hard is that such
non-Aristotelian logic is often quite right to employ -- for example,
no amount of logical explanation, however accurate, suffices for the
"knowledge" which comes with simply being sloshed around in current and
waves and wind and sun. That's why things are, in a way, especially
hard to discern...how do you predict the weather? You can't...yet
there are those who just seem to know it, old salts...yet even such old
salts are not all the same -- some could be just lucky more often than
not, etc.

Oci-One Kanubi wrote:
>
>
> Hmmm, I was pondering the absurdity of religious belief while driving
> home from the Chatooga River Sunday night. I decided that there are
> few people equipped to imagine that which they have never experienced,
> and no-one has ever experienced non-existence. So the non-existence
> that comes with death is a non-player in most peoples' imaginations,
> and they are therefore susceptible to any explanation the priest class
> chooses to offer for where we will "go" after death. Once the priests
> get that thin edge of the wedge into yer psyche, they can lead you
> anywhere they want to.
>
> The priest classes of the judaeo-christian cults have come up with a
> package deal that would even make P.T.Barnum blush. What are the two
> things that everyone (who was not raised in a pathological household)
> wants: 1) daddy to be around taking care of us forever (or for those
> who have never been adequately taken care of, an end to this miserable
> existence and the beginning of a wonderful existence), and 2) to never
> die. Nicely wrapped up in the j-c superstitions, and all examples of
> the absurdity and outright untruth of the dogma are shrugged off with
> the non-explanation "we cannot understand his mysterious ways."
>
>
> -Richard, His Kanubic Travesty
> --
> ======================================================================
> Richard Hopley Winston-Salem, NC, USA
> . rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net
> . Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll
> . rhopley[at]wfubmc[dot]edu
> . OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters
> ======================================================================

Date: 19 Jul 2005 10:27:00
From: Johnny Thunder
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

NYC XYZ wrote:
>
> Indeed, Stern gang, Betar, etc. Some of the Jewish fascists were going
> to take over Madagascar at first, with Nazi help!
>
> Actually, Washington was called a "terrorist" in his time...so too the
> leaders of the Irish Republic. All these labels are really besides the
> point, aren't they.

Yes.

JAM

>
> Johnny Thunder wrote:
> >
> >
> > Don't forget that Israel is the first terrorist nation. Some of Israel's
> > best know leaders committed terrorist bombings to drive the British out
> > of Palestine.
> >
> > Evil Begets Evil.
> >
> > JAM

Date: 19 Jul 2005 06:06:33
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

Indeed, Stern gang, Betar, etc. Some of the Jewish fascists were going
to take over Madagascar at first, with Nazi help!

Actually, Washington was called a "terrorist" in his time...so too the
leaders of the Irish Republic. All these labels are really besides the
point, aren't they.

Johnny Thunder wrote:
>
>
> Don't forget that Israel is the first terrorist nation. Some of Israel's
> best know leaders committed terrorist bombings to drive the British out
> of Palestine.
>
> Evil Begets Evil.
>
> JAM

Date: 19 Jul 2005 05:48:49
From: Johnny Thunder
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

NYC XYZ wrote:
>
> Jeffrey E. Salzberg wrote:
> >
> >
> > Absolutely true -- except for the part about the landgrab.
>
> How was it not a land-grab? Even zionists say it was a simple matter
> of "a land without a people for a people without a land," etc.
>
> > ...Unless, of course, paying many times the market price for arid
> > wasteland can be considered by sane people a "landgrab".
>
> I don't doubt that there were such cases, and that's why I compared it
> to dominicans buying property in NYC...and while it's commendable what
> the EUROPEAN WHITE Israelis have done with the desert, that's still
> besides the point of their having invaded the land. Hell, that's the
> old White Man's Burden argument WRT Africa et al.
>
> Anyway, I don't care to argue this with you...secular Jews may be
> permitted their near-blind devotion to an Israeli state...that's still
> better than these dumb muslims and their idiotic grievances against TV,
> fast food, and g-strings.
>
> > --
> >
> > ==================================================
> > Take back the Congress without DeLay!
> >
> > Contribute to Nick Lampson's congressional campaign:
> > http://www.lampson.com/

Are you referring the same Muslims that redeemed the world from the
ignorant and destructive "holy roman empire"?

JAM

Date: 19 Jul 2005 05:44:18
From: Johnny Thunder
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

NYC XYZ wrote:
>
> LOL -- and what if all the dominicans that own property in NYC wanted
> to amalgamate their holdings and proclaim themselves part of the
> dominican republic?
>
> Possession in 9/10th of the law, but what those zionists did was
> nothing less than a landgrab such as afrikaaners did, such as white
> pioneers out west did, etc.
>
> Jeffrey E. Salzberg wrote:
> >
> >
> > Yeah, it's been such a hardship for them, the way we insist on the
> > Israelis being allowed to, you know, live.
> >
> > --
> >
> > ==================================================
> > Take back the Congress without DeLay!
> >
> > Contribute to Nick Lampson's congressional campaign:
> > http://www.lampson.com/

Don't forget that Israel is the first terrorist nation. Some of Israel's
best know leaders committed terrorist bombings to drive the British out
of Palestine.

Evil Begets Evil.

JAM

Date: 18 Jul 2005 16:11:08
From: John Kuthe
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

Oci-One Kanubi wrote:

> NYC XYZ wrote:
> > Dan O'Connell wrote:
> > > A very lucid interpretation of what's going on with the world and it's
> > > religions...historical and philosophical aspects are presented in a new book
> > > out by Sam Harris titled..."The End Of Faith"
> >
> > The best-selling "A History of God" is also a good read in this regard.
> >
> > And this week's "Speaking of Faith" on NPR is about a Christian couple
> > whose son thinks he's Jesus Christ...the dad notes that it's a strange
> > experience going to church with someone who thinks he's God...but as an
> > atheist, I don't see how that's much different than the folks in there
> > who think there is some "God" out there paying attention to their petty
> > concerns.
> >
> > > You may find yourself
> > > questioning much of what you have been "told" to believe? Why does anyone
> > > believe what they believe...and why do we have to tolerate beliefs that are
> > > dangerous to anyone...simply because someone called it a religion? Much of
> > > the dogma of current religions was made up within the last 500 years...the
> > > time for "religions" is rapidly coming to an end (Thank GOD!) Why do we
> > > refuse to accept anything as fact in all other areas without empirical
> > > evidence..and "religion" gets a free pass!
> >
> > I'm tempted to x-post this into alt.philosophy.zen...!
> >
> > I'm afraid the belief in an "outside power" will be with us for
> > generations yet...basically, it's how we grow up as helpless
> > infants...the mind seeks to organize everything into patterns...that's
> > why we look at a cloud and it usually appears to us to be in some
> > recognizable shaper or other, even when we're feeling quite relaxed and
> > don't have some kind of preoccupation at the moment...likewise with
> > (the popular understanding of) "religion" -- the minds seeks to
> > organize its metaphysical concerns into a meaningful pattern -- the
> > template being one's childhood development....
> >
> > > I'm extremely skeptical of most
> > > of what all of us have been told to believe. To keep this on topic...we
> > > discussed this while we were paddling Lake Michigan/Door County WI last week
> > > ;)
>
> Hmmm, I was pondering the absurdity of religious belief while driving
> home from the Chatooga River Sunday night. I decided that there are
> few people equipped to imagine that which they have never experienced,
> and no-one has ever experienced non-existence.

Oh wise Oci-One, yes, we ALL have experienced non-existence! Each and every human
has experienced it, if one can be said to experience a non-existance. It was where
we each were before we were conceived! Each of us did not exist yet until conceived,
until those two sperm and egg cells combined to form a zygote, and before that
moment we did not exist, so could be said to 'experience' non-existance.

> So the non-existence
> that comes with death is a non-player in most peoples' imaginations,
> and they are therefore susceptible to any explanation the priest class
> chooses to offer for where we will "go" after death. Once the priests
> get that thin edge of the wedge into yer psyche, they can lead you
> anywhere they want to.

It is my contention that since Mother Nature is extremely conservative in her ways,
never inventing anything superfluously or redundently, that it's very *very* likely
that the place we go after death is very much like if not the exact same place we
were before we were born! Non-existance!

The priests invent any number of fanciful tales, for a variety of reasons. The first
is probably to answer the unanswerable questions like "Where do I go after I die?",
and once having established power over people, theyr motivations become more and
more self-serving, even into the sinister! Like "Please contribute to the collection
plate generously!"

>
> The priest classes of the judaeo-christian cults have come up with a
> package deal that would even make P.T.Barnum blush. What are the two
> things that everyone (who was not raised in a pathological household)
> wants: 1) daddy to be around taking care of us forever (or for those
> who have never been adequately taken care of, an end to this miserable
> existence and the beginning of a wonderful existence), and 2) to never
> die. Nicely wrapped up in the j-c superstitions, and all examples of
> the absurdity and outright untruth of the dogma are shrugged off with
> the non-explanation "we cannot understand his mysterious ways."

YUP! The thought that 1) we're here on our own and responsible for ourselves, and 2)
we do indeed cease to exist when we die are damned scary things, if true, which I
contend they are!

OBTW, I do NOT believe in any anthropomorphized, omnipotent, omnipresent and
omniscient beings. I believe that any and all such beings are purely ficticious
inventions, much like...no, *identical* to Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny, which
we invent for our children to answer their questions in a way they can understand.
The problem is that we eventially fess up that Santa and the Easter Bunny were just
*make believe* fanciful fun characters, but we maintain that the one we call "God"
is *real*, despite all evidence to the contrary! I really do believe we are here on
our own and responsible for ourselves, yano? I do not believe there is any such
thing as a "God" looking over us and taking care of us. I believe it';s *all* up to
us! Entirely and completely.

Scary, but I kinda like it that way. Now if only we could get people to stop SUCKING
so badly! ;-)

John Kuthe...

Date: 18 Jul 2005 07:22:32
From: Oci-One Kanubi
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

NYC XYZ wrote:
> Dan O'Connell wrote:
> > A very lucid interpretation of what's going on with the world and it's
> > religions...historical and philosophical aspects are presented in a new book
> > out by Sam Harris titled..."The End Of Faith"
>
> The best-selling "A History of God" is also a good read in this regard.
>
> And this week's "Speaking of Faith" on NPR is about a Christian couple
> whose son thinks he's Jesus Christ...the dad notes that it's a strange
> experience going to church with someone who thinks he's God...but as an
> atheist, I don't see how that's much different than the folks in there
> who think there is some "God" out there paying attention to their petty
> concerns.
>
> > You may find yourself
> > questioning much of what you have been "told" to believe? Why does anyone
> > believe what they believe...and why do we have to tolerate beliefs that are
> > dangerous to anyone...simply because someone called it a religion? Much of
> > the dogma of current religions was made up within the last 500 years...the
> > time for "religions" is rapidly coming to an end (Thank GOD!) Why do we
> > refuse to accept anything as fact in all other areas without empirical
> > evidence..and "religion" gets a free pass!
>
> I'm tempted to x-post this into alt.philosophy.zen...!
>
> I'm afraid the belief in an "outside power" will be with us for
> generations yet...basically, it's how we grow up as helpless
> infants...the mind seeks to organize everything into patterns...that's
> why we look at a cloud and it usually appears to us to be in some
> recognizable shaper or other, even when we're feeling quite relaxed and
> don't have some kind of preoccupation at the moment...likewise with
> (the popular understanding of) "religion" -- the minds seeks to
> organize its metaphysical concerns into a meaningful pattern -- the
> template being one's childhood development....
>
> > I'm extremely skeptical of most
> > of what all of us have been told to believe. To keep this on topic...we
> > discussed this while we were paddling Lake Michigan/Door County WI last week
> > ;)

Hmmm, I was pondering the absurdity of religious belief while driving
home from the Chatooga River Sunday night. I decided that there are
few people equipped to imagine that which they have never experienced,
and no-one has ever experienced non-existence. So the non-existence
that comes with death is a non-player in most peoples' imaginations,
and they are therefore susceptible to any explanation the priest class
chooses to offer for where we will "go" after death. Once the priests
get that thin edge of the wedge into yer psyche, they can lead you
anywhere they want to.

The priest classes of the judaeo-christian cults have come up with a
package deal that would even make P.T.Barnum blush. What are the two
things that everyone (who was not raised in a pathological household)
wants: 1) daddy to be around taking care of us forever (or for those
who have never been adequately taken care of, an end to this miserable
existence and the beginning of a wonderful existence), and 2) to never
die. Nicely wrapped up in the j-c superstitions, and all examples of
the absurdity and outright untruth of the dogma are shrugged off with
the non-explanation "we cannot understand his mysterious ways."

-Richard, His Kanubic Travesty
--
======================================================================
Richard Hopley Winston-Salem, NC, USA
. rhopley[at]earthlink[dot]net
. Nothing really matters except Boats, Sex, and Rock'n'Roll
. rhopley[at]wfubmc[dot]edu
. OK, OK; computer programming for scientific research also matters
======================================================================

Date: 17 Jul 2005 07:47:22
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

Jeffrey E. Salzberg wrote:
>
>
> Absolutely true -- except for the part about the landgrab.

How was it not a land-grab? Even zionists say it was a simple matter
of "a land without a people for a people without a land," etc.

> ...Unless, of course, paying many times the market price for arid
> wasteland can be considered by sane people a "landgrab".

I don't doubt that there were such cases, and that's why I compared it
to dominicans buying property in NYC...and while it's commendable what
the EUROPEAN WHITE Israelis have done with the desert, that's still
besides the point of their having invaded the land. Hell, that's the
old White Man's Burden argument WRT Africa et al.

Anyway, I don't care to argue this with you...secular Jews may be
permitted their near-blind devotion to an Israeli state...that's still
better than these dumb muslims and their idiotic grievances against TV,
fast food, and g-strings.

> --
>
> ==================================================
> Take back the Congress without DeLay!
>
> Contribute to Nick Lampson's congressional campaign:
> http://www.lampson.com/

Date: 17 Jul 2005 10:50:29
From: Jeffrey E. Salzberg
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

In article <1121611642.245902.93340@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com >,
jack_foreigner@yahoo.com says...

> that's still
> besides the point of their having invaded the land.

Except, of course, that Jews have been there longer than Palestinians.
--

==================================================
Take back the Congress without DeLay!

Contribute to Nick Lampson's congressional campaign:
http://www.lampson.com/

Date: 19 Jul 2005 05:49:44
From: Johnny Thunder
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

"Jeffrey E. Salzberg" wrote:
>
> In article <1121611642.245902.93340@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> jack_foreigner@yahoo.com says...
>
> > that's still
> > besides the point of their having invaded the land.
>
> Except, of course, that Jews have been there longer than Palestinians.
> --
>
> ==================================================
> Take back the Congress without DeLay!
>
> Contribute to Nick Lampson's congressional campaign:
> http://www.lampson.com/

Wasn't it their own god that drove them off the land because of their
sins?

JAM

Date: 17 Jul 2005 07:40:17
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

Jeffrey E. Salzberg wrote:
>
>
>
> For the sake of discussion, let's pretend that what you say is true
> (tommorow, for the sake of discussion, we'll pretend that pigs can fly).

You know a land-grab is a land-grab, no matter what God or
justification you appeal to. It's interesting that all the
imperialists were big Bible-thumpers...after all, the Canaanite
Holocaust is celebrated in the Bible! Can you imagine that...not even
the Nazis were dumb enough to order the slaughter of cattle owned by
Untermenschen...but in the Bible even the cattle of infidels were
ordered by God to be slaughtered!

> Do you think that justifies shooting a two-year-old Israeli girl in the
> head at point-blank range? does it justify blowing up Israeli teenagers
> while they eat pizza?

Actually, no. I don't agree with it -- but I shrug it off as easily as
I do these muslims walking down the street getting caught in the
cross-fire of American-made IDF Cobra gunships on an assassination run.

May all "religionists" die -- starting with the monotheists, and
starting with pig muslims!!!

> --
>
> ==================================================
> Take back the Congress without DeLay!
>
> Contribute to Nick Lampson's congressional campaign:
> http://www.lampson.com/

Date: 17 Jul 2005 09:58:44
From: The Unreal Franklin
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

>
> You know a land-grab is a land-grab, no matter what God or
> justification you appeal to. It's interesting that all the
> imperialists were big Bible-thumpers...after all, the Canaanite
> Holocaust is celebrated in the Bible! Can you imagine that...not even
> the Nazis were dumb enough to order the slaughter of cattle owned by
> Untermenschen...but in the Bible even the cattle of infidels were
> ordered by God to be slaughtered!
>

I assume, then, that you're also an advocate of returning the United States
to the native Americans? After all, a land-grab is a land-grab, you know,
no matter what God or justification you appeal to...

Date: 17 Jul 2005 10:49:19
From: Jeffrey E. Salzberg
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

In article <1121611217.283903.272120@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com >,
jack_foreigner@yahoo.com says...
>
> Jeffrey E. Salzberg wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > For the sake of discussion, let's pretend that what you say is true
> > (tommorow, for the sake of discussion, we'll pretend that pigs can fly).
>
> You know a land-grab is a land-grab,

Absolutely.,

This, however was not a land grab unless, as I pointed out elsewhere,
you define the term as "overpaying for arid wasteland".
--

==================================================
Take back the Congress without DeLay!

Contribute to Nick Lampson's congressional campaign:
http://www.lampson.com/

Date: 17 Jul 2005 06:38:53
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

LOL -- and what if all the dominicans that own property in NYC wanted
to amalgamate their holdings and proclaim themselves part of the
dominican republic?

Possession in 9/10th of the law, but what those zionists did was
nothing less than a landgrab such as afrikaaners did, such as white
pioneers out west did, etc.

Jeffrey E. Salzberg wrote:
>
>
> Yeah, it's been such a hardship for them, the way we insist on the
> Israelis being allowed to, you know, live.
>
> --
>
> ==================================================
> Take back the Congress without DeLay!
>
> Contribute to Nick Lampson's congressional campaign:
> http://www.lampson.com/

Date: 17 Jul 2005 10:04:11
From: Jeffrey E. Salzberg
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

In article <1121607533.095915.291350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com >,
jack_foreigner@yahoo.com says...
>
> LOL -- and what if all the dominicans that own property in NYC wanted
> to amalgamate their holdings and proclaim themselves part of the
> dominican republic?
>
> Possession in 9/10th of the law, but what those zionists did was
> nothing less than a landgrab such as afrikaaners did, such as white
> pioneers out west did, etc.

For the sake of discussion, let's pretend that what you say is true
(tommorow, for the sake of discussion, we'll pretend that pigs can fly).

Do you think that justifies shooting a two-year-old Israeli girl in the
head at point-blank range? does it justify blowing up Israeli teenagers
while they eat pizza?

--

==================================================
Take back the Congress without DeLay!

Contribute to Nick Lampson's congressional campaign:
http://www.lampson.com/

Date: 19 Jul 2005 05:51:17
From: Johnny Thunder
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

Date: 17 Jul 2005 16:04:00
From: slim
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

"Jeffrey E. Salzberg" wrote:
>
> In article <1121607533.095915.291350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
> jack_foreigner@yahoo.com says...
> >
> > LOL -- and what if all the dominicans that own property in NYC wanted
> > to amalgamate their holdings and proclaim themselves part of the
> > dominican republic?
> >
> > Possession in 9/10th of the law, but what those zionists did was
> > nothing less than a landgrab such as afrikaaners did, such as white
> > pioneers out west did, etc.
>
> For the sake of discussion, let's pretend that what you say is true
> (tommorow, for the sake of discussion, we'll pretend that pigs can fly).
>
> Do you think that justifies shooting a two-year-old Israeli girl in the
> head at point-blank range? does it justify blowing up Israeli teenagers
> while they eat pizza?

The USraelis have JUSTIFICATION for all thier atrocities.

Lets all sing now...you know the tune.....havah negila....

JUST-TI-FI-CA-TION....JUST-TI-FI-CA-TION....JUST-TI-FI-CA-TION....

--------------------

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-03-31-then-and-now-usat_x.htm

"Other top officials, including Cheney and Rumsfeld, said the war would
last
"weeks, not months.""

http://www.natcath.com/NCR_Online/archives2/2005b/052705/052705w.php

"More than two years into a war that was supposed to be quick and easy,
and
the justification for which has spun from removing a dictator to
eliminating
weapons of mass destruction to fighting terrorism and, finally, to
planting
democracy that would then spread across the Middle East, Iraq is in chaos."

RayGun sends his lackey to kiss Saddam's ass.
http://www.worldmessenger.20m.com/weapons.html#wms

http://www.bushflash.com/thanks.html
WHY IRAQ?: http://www.angelfire.com/creep/gwbush/remindus.html
http://www.quantumphilosophy.net/files/clips/TimRyan_Medium.mov
http://www.toostupidtobepresident.com/shockwave/chickenhawks.htm

"Bubba got a BJ, BU$H screwed us all!" - Slim

Date: 17 Jul 2005 12:39:24
From: Jeffrey E. Salzberg
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

> The USraelis have JUSTIFICATION for all thier atrocities.

No, any atrocities committed by the Israelis are no more justifiable
than those committed by Palestinian terrorists. The difference, of
course, is that -- propaganda and your hate-filled fantasies
notwithstanding -- there are fewer atrocities committed by the Israelis
and they aren't a matter of government policy.

Unless one considers, as you do, the very act of Jews' breathing to be
an atrocity.

> Lets all sing now...you know the tune.....havah negila....
>
> JUST-TI-FI-CA-TION....JUST-TI-FI-CA-TION....JUST-TI-FI-CA-TION....

...And as usual, your point -- which you obviously consider to be quite
telling -- makes no sense to any sane peson.

... And now you'll endlessly parrot "insanity defense", which *also*
makes no sense.

--

==================================================
Take back the Congress without DeLay!

Contribute to Nick Lampson's congressional campaign:
http://www.lampson.com/

Date: 19 Jul 2005 05:54:17
From: Johnny Thunder
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

"Jeffrey E. Salzberg" wrote:
>
>
> > The USraelis have JUSTIFICATION for all thier atrocities.
>
> No, any atrocities committed by the Israelis are no more justifiable
> than those committed by Palestinian terrorists. The difference, of
> course, is that -- propaganda and your hate-filled fantasies
> notwithstanding -- there are fewer atrocities committed by the Israelis
> and they aren't a matter of government policy.

Israeli occupation of what is left of Palestine lands is a government
policy, subsidized and approved.

JAM

Date: 17 Jul 2005 09:55:29
From: Jeffrey E. Salzberg
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

In article <1121607533.095915.291350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com >,
jack_foreigner@yahoo.com says...

> Possession in 9/10th of the law, but what those zionists did was
> nothing less than a landgrab such as afrikaaners did, such as white
> pioneers out west did, etc.

Absolutely true -- except for the part about the landgrab.

...Unless, of course, paying many times the market price for arid
wasteland can be considered by sane people a "landgrab".

--

==================================================
Take back the Congress without DeLay!

Contribute to Nick Lampson's congressional campaign:
http://www.lampson.com/

Date: 19 Jul 2005 05:46:28
From: Johnny Thunder
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

"Jeffrey E. Salzberg" wrote:
>
> In article <1121607533.095915.291350@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
> jack_foreigner@yahoo.com says...
>
> > Possession in 9/10th of the law, but what those zionists did was
> > nothing less than a landgrab such as afrikaaners did, such as white
> > pioneers out west did, etc.
>
> Absolutely true -- except for the part about the landgrab.
>
> ...Unless, of course, paying many times the market price for arid
> wasteland can be considered by sane people a "landgrab".
>

Can you prove that they paid anything for the land that was taken from
the Palestinians?

From what I have read they took the land because it is their god given
right to.

Just asking.

JAM

Date: 16 Jul 2005 20:55:37
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

Dan O'Connell wrote:
> A very lucid interpretation of what's going on with the world and it's
> religions...historical and philosophical aspects are presented in a new book
> out by Sam Harris titled..."The End Of Faith"

The best-selling "A History of God" is also a good read in this regard.

And this week's "Speaking of Faith" on NPR is about a Christian couple
whose son thinks he's Jesus Christ...the dad notes that it's a strange
experience going to church with someone who thinks he's God...but as an
atheist, I don't see how that's much different than the folks in there
who think there is some "God" out there paying attention to their petty
concerns.

> You may find yourself
> questioning much of what you have been "told" to believe? Why does anyone
> believe what they believe...and why do we have to tolerate beliefs that are
> dangerous to anyone...simply because someone called it a religion? Much of
> the dogma of current religions was made up within the last 500 years...the
> time for "religions" is rapidly coming to an end (Thank GOD!) Why do we
> refuse to accept anything as fact in all other areas without empirical
> evidence..and "religion" gets a free pass!

I'm tempted to x-post this into alt.philosophy.zen...!

I'm afraid the belief in an "outside power" will be with us for
generations yet...basically, it's how we grow up as helpless
infants...the mind seeks to organize everything into patterns...that's
why we look at a cloud and it usually appears to us to be in some
recognizable shaper or other, even when we're feeling quite relaxed and
don't have some kind of preoccupation at the moment...likewise with
(the popular understanding of) "religion" -- the minds seeks to
organize its metaphysical concerns into a meaningful pattern -- the
template being one's childhood development....

> I'm extremely skeptical of most
> of what all of us have been told to believe. To keep this on topic...we
> discussed this while we were paddling Lake Michigan/Door County WI last week
> ;)

Indeed...I was told that NRS Paragon Pack could be used for my damned
Sea Eagle PaddleSki inflatable...not happening! Or not very elegantly,
anyway.

Ruminating over this strange world is all the more interesting while
paddling a tidal river for me...the water's turbulence literally
mirroring the state of debate!

Date: 16 Jul 2005 20:58:17
From: Dan O'Connell
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

A very lucid interpretation of what's going on with the world and it's
religions...historical and philosophical aspects are presented in a new book
out by Sam Harris titled..."The End Of Faith" You may find yourself
questioning much of what you have been "told" to believe? Why does anyone
believe what they believe...and why do we have to tolerate beliefs that are
dangerous to anyone...simply because someone called it a religion? Much of
the dogma of current religions was made up within the last 500 years...the
time for "religions" is rapidly coming to an end (Thank GOD!) Why do we
refuse to accept anything as fact in all other areas without empirical
evidence..and "religion" gets a free pass! I'm extremely skeptical of most
of what all of us have been told to believe. To keep this on topic...we
discussed this while we were paddling Lake Michigan/Door County WI last week
;)
"NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1121182275.775809.99630@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> I actually live in an Arab neighborhood...but all these security
> precautions are making me ticked off! Sorry if folks are offended, but
> I'm becoming increasingly resentful myself...was looking forward to
> paddling and taking pictures, and now feel inconvenienced just by the
> thought that I'd better be careful of what I do! I know my anger's
> misplaced, but you know, it'd be soooooo much easier if these guys did
> everyone a favor and just stayed the hell home, or at least stop taking
> goddamned pictures of landmarks!
>
> I know that sounds very funny...@#$%!!
>
>
>
> http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/12/nyregion/12bridge.html
>
>
> Two men seen taking pictures of the George Washington Bridge from an
> inflatable raft in the Hudson River yesterday afternoon were taken into
> custody by the police when they came ashore.
>
> The police said last night that no arrests had been made, but Sgt.
> Brian Mullen of the 34th Precinct said that charges against the men,
> who were not identified, were pending. One possible charge was
> unauthorized use of the raft in the wrong place, he said.
>
> Around 4:15 p.m., a 911 call reported that the men, who the police said
> appeared to be of Middle Eastern descent, were taking pictures near the
> bridge. Hundreds of police officers, in boats, a helicopter and on
> foot, descended on the river and the Dyckman Street marina. They
> impounded the raft and another one nearby.
>

Date: 16 Jul 2005 17:53:32
From: slim
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

NYC XYZ wrote:
>
> Rick Donnelly wrote:
> >
> >
> > I don't understand your point-of-view on this one.
>
> Aaaggrrh...just kinda frustrated here how these damned islamists are
> making life mroe and more difficult.

After over sixty years of us making life miserable for THEM,
what can you expect?

NeoCondee recently siad that our meddlesome polices in the
middle east have been a complete failure.

--------------------

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-03-31-then-and-now-usat_x.htm

"Other top officials, including Cheney and Rumsfeld, said the war would
last
"weeks, not months.""

http://www.natcath.com/NCR_Online/archives2/2005b/052705/052705w.php

"More than two years into a war that was supposed to be quick and easy,
and
the justification for which has spun from removing a dictator to
eliminating
weapons of mass destruction to fighting terrorism and, finally, to
planting
democracy that would then spread across the Middle East, Iraq is in chaos."

RayGun sends his lackey to kiss Saddam's ass.
http://www.worldmessenger.20m.com/weapons.html#wms

http://www.bushflash.com/thanks.html
WHY IRAQ?: http://www.angelfire.com/creep/gwbush/remindus.html
http://www.quantumphilosophy.net/files/clips/TimRyan_Medium.mov
http://www.toostupidtobepresident.com/shockwave/chickenhawks.htm

"Bubba got a BJ, BU$H screwed us all!" - Slim

Date: 16 Jul 2005 14:06:45
From: Jeffrey E. Salzberg
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

In article <42D94BED.EAA89C10@nyc.rr.com >, pickin's@nyc.rr.com says...

> > Aaaggrrh...just kinda frustrated here how these damned islamists are
> > making life mroe and more difficult.
>
> After over sixty years of us making life miserable for THEM,
> what can you expect?

Yeah, it's been such a hardship for them, the way we insist on the
Israelis being allowed to, you know, live.

--

==================================================
Take back the Congress without DeLay!

Contribute to Nick Lampson's congressional campaign:
http://www.lampson.com/

Date: 19 Jul 2005 05:40:35
From: Johnny Thunder
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

"Jeffrey E. Salzberg" wrote:
>
> In article <42D94BED.EAA89C10@nyc.rr.com>, pickin's@nyc.rr.com says...
>
>
> > > Aaaggrrh...just kinda frustrated here how these damned islamists are
> > > making life mroe and more difficult.
> >
> > After over sixty years of us making life miserable for THEM,
> > what can you expect?
>
> Yeah, it's been such a hardship for them, the way we insist on the
> Israelis being allowed to, you know, live.

Why can't the Palestinians be allowed to live in a land that once
belonged to them?

Israel exist because of European racism. They decide to send their Jews
back to Israel rather than accept them in European society.

JAM

Date: 19 Jul 2005 08:53:23
From: Mike Buckley
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

"Johnny Thunder" <"Johnny Thunder"@pgh.net > wrote in message
news:42DC9225.AC7E9A29@pgh.net...
>
> Why can't the Palestinians be allowed to live in a land that once
> belonged to them?
>
> Israel exist because of European racism. They decide to send their Jews
> back to Israel rather than accept them in European society.
>
> JAM

Total rubbish.

Date: 19 Jul 2005 10:29:34
From: Johnny Thunder
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

Mike Buckley wrote:
>
> "Johnny Thunder" <"Johnny Thunder"@pgh.net> wrote in message
> news:42DC9225.AC7E9A29@pgh.net...
> >
> > Why can't the Palestinians be allowed to live in a land that once
> > belonged to them?
> >
> > Israel exist because of European racism. They decide to send their Jews
> > back to Israel rather than accept them in European society.
> >
> > JAM
>
> Total rubbish.

What planet are you from?

the plan to send the Jews back to Israel goes back to the early
twentieth century. Look it up for your self. don't be fooled by all the
BS that has been shoveled on top of the truth.

JAM

Date: 23 Jul 2005 16:24:33
From: Mike Buckley
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

"Johnny Thunder" <"Johnny Thunder"@pgh.net > wrote in message
news:42DD0E4E.32F8A4F1@pgh.net...
> Mike Buckley wrote:
> >
> > "Johnny Thunder" <"Johnny Thunder"@pgh.net> wrote in message
> > news:42DC9225.AC7E9A29@pgh.net...
> > >
> > > Why can't the Palestinians be allowed to live in a land that once
> > > belonged to them?
> > >
> > > Israel exist because of European racism. They decide to send their
Jews
> > > back to Israel rather than accept them in European society.
> > >
> > > JAM
> >
> > Total rubbish.
>
> What planet are you from?
>
> the plan to send the Jews back to Israel goes back to the early
> twentieth century. Look it up for your self. don't be fooled by all the
> BS that has been shoveled on top of the truth.
>
Well, that was a nice considered answer which goes a long way to convincing
me of your argument.

Always good to see a well researched, balanced and convincing argument
looking at all sides before offering a considered opinion.

Mike.

Date: 14 Jul 2005 05:32:23
From: NYC XYZ
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

Rick Donnelly wrote:
>
>
> I don't understand your point-of-view on this one.

Aaaggrrh...just kinda frustrated here how these damned islamists are
making life mroe and more difficult.

Used to be that you could just kayak to the Statue of Liberty and
picnic...no more now.

> Taking pictures is, as
> far as I'm concerned, about as common as farting, and at least as harmless.
> Frankly, the problem is the security system which cannot differentiate
> between real and imagined threats. Two, four, or four hundred tourists
> taking pictures of a bridge is not exactly a threat of any kind when the
> technology is such that I can go on the web and look at the bridge in real
> time.

It's just that security forces can't take a chance. I know it sucks to
be racially profiled, but c'mon, this is the real world....

> While these bozos are chasing down two guys in a boat, the ports of entry of
> the US are inspecting less than 1% of the incoming cargo on ships (according
> to reports released a couple of weeks ago). Anyone see a problem with this?

You're totally right about that. But you know, it's like with anything
else -- you do what you can, and it's a hell of a lot easier to stop
two swarthy fellows in a boat taking pictures of landmarks than it is
to screen the billions of dollars worth of incoming goods, so that's
why we have more of one and dreadfully much less of the other.

Not saying it's right, just that it's...inevitable.

Ultimately, I think these damned islamists should just get the hell
outta here if they don't like it that much. No one's forcing them to
be here. It's amazing how even the "moderates" will deplore suicide
bombings but in the next breath try to talk about "context" and Israel
and Palestine and Iraq, blah blah blah...that's like blacks deploring
crime but turning right around and saying how racism causes crime, blah
blah blah...enough is enough!

NYC abolished sales taxes on clothing under ~$100, but then 9/11
happened and the City needed money so all kinds of taxes got put back
in and even went up...one thing after another, and now this! Just
increasingly ticked off how these yoyos are making MY life
inconvenient...what the hell we let such people in this country
anyway??

> Rick

Ahhh...just hadda vent.

Date: 15 Jul 2005 18:45:21
From: The Unreal Franklin
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

> It's amazing how even the "moderates" will deplore suicide
> bombings but in the next breath try to talk about "context" and Israel
> and Palestine and Iraq, blah blah blah...that's like blacks deploring
> crime but turning right around and saying how racism causes crime, blah
> blah blah...enough is enough!
>

As one of those moderates, this doesn't make any sense to me. I deplore
suicide bombings. I also think that if you're going to *stop* suicide
bombings, a good start is to figure out why they happen in the first place.
To me, that's just basic problem-solving. I mean, if somebody is constantly
causing trouble, do you just keep locking them up every time they do
something, or do you try to figure out what's at the root of the problem and
try to end it permanently?!? Just like getting dandelions out of your lawn:
it's not enough to cut the flower, you gotta get the root, too.

Date: 16 Jul 2005 17:59:13
From: slim
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

The Unreal Franklin wrote:
>
> > It's amazing how even the "moderates" will deplore suicide
> > bombings but in the next breath try to talk about "context" and Israel
> > and Palestine and Iraq, blah blah blah...that's like blacks deploring
> > crime but turning right around and saying how racism causes crime, blah
> > blah blah...enough is enough!
> >
>
> As one of those moderates, this doesn't make any sense to me. I deplore
> suicide bombings. I also think that if you're going to *stop* suicide
> bombings, a good start is to figure out why they happen in the first place.

The Arab and Islamic populations have been fucked over by the
Brits and America for quite a while.

An open apology followed with meaningful actions would be a nice start.

> To me, that's just basic problem-solving. I mean, if somebody is constantly
> causing trouble, do you just keep locking them up every time they do
> something, or do you try to figure out what's at the root of the problem and
> try to end it permanently?!? Just like getting dandelions out of your lawn:
> it's not enough to cut the flower, you gotta get the root, too.

The root is over sicty years of opression, led by, and aided and abetted by
Britan and America.

Its the classic bully syndrome.

We fucked them over because we could. We were bigger and badder than
they were.

Now they are fighting back and we don't like it.

Boo hoo hoo.

--------------------

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-03-31-then-and-now-usat_x.htm

"Other top officials, including Cheney and Rumsfeld, said the war would
last
"weeks, not months.""

http://www.natcath.com/NCR_Online/archives2/2005b/052705/052705w.php

"More than two years into a war that was supposed to be quick and easy,
and
the justification for which has spun from removing a dictator to
eliminating
weapons of mass destruction to fighting terrorism and, finally, to
planting
democracy that would then spread across the Middle East, Iraq is in chaos."

RayGun sends his lackey to kiss Saddam's ass.
http://www.worldmessenger.20m.com/weapons.html#wms

http://www.bushflash.com/thanks.html
WHY IRAQ?: http://www.angelfire.com/creep/gwbush/remindus.html
http://www.quantumphilosophy.net/files/clips/TimRyan_Medium.mov
http://www.toostupidtobepresident.com/shockwave/chickenhawks.htm

"Bubba got a BJ, BU$H screwed us all!" - Slim

Date: 19 Jul 2005 05:36:00
From: Johnny Thunder
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

> The root is over sicty years of opression, led by, and aided and abetted by
> Britan and America.

I think you ment sixty years. And it has been nearly one hundred years
that western powers have been exploiting an killing people in the middle
east.

>
> Its the classic bully syndrome.
>
> We fucked them over because we could. We were bigger and badder than
> they were.
>
> Now they are fighting back and we don't like it.
>
> Boo hoo hoo.
>

When we kill tens of thousands of innocent people we call in war and
collateral damage. When they fight back we call it terrorism.

Evil begets evil.

JAM

Date: 14 Jul 2005 18:48:56
From: Rick Donnelly
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

"NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1121344343.707796.81160@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
>
> Rick Donnelly wrote:
>>
>>
>> I don't understand your point-of-view on this one.
>
> Aaaggrrh...just kinda frustrated here how these damned islamists are
> making life mroe and more difficult.
>
> Used to be that you could just kayak to the Statue of Liberty and
> picnic...no more now.
>

While I agree that it is unfortunate that we are allowing fear to control
our response, my point is that our reaction to the threat seems to be
out-of-line with reality. The efforts of our security system seems to be
rather off-target. We are inspecting people's shoes because one idiot
couldn't even get his to explode, but are ignoring the logical types of
threats that are considerably more likely and deadly. In addition, we seem
to be ignoring the possibility that people in the US (I can't call the Tim
McVeigh types citizens) are of equal, or greater, threat, than a handful of
Islamic zealots (most of which are not suicide bombers).

...stuff deleted

> It's just that security forces can't take a chance. I know it sucks to
> be racially profiled, but c'mon, this is the real world....
>

Indeed. Still, I'd rather that intelligence was applied before action. A man
in a boat taking pictures of US submarines may well be a threat of some type
and should be investigated. A man taking pictures of the Golden Gate or Bay
Bridge is not. Again, I can use a portable computer and a link to get real
time information on these bridges using the available satellite technology
from a variety of web sites. If I had proper security access, I could
probably read the denominations of the bills the toll takers are collecting.
The problem is that this is much harder to monitor, so the "system" tends to
ignore the reality of providing real security.

...stuff deleted

> You're totally right about that. But you know, it's like with anything
> else -- you do what you can, and it's a hell of a lot easier to stop
> two swarthy fellows in a boat taking pictures of landmarks than it is
> to screen the billions of dollars worth of incoming goods, so that's
> why we have more of one and dreadfully much less of the other.
>
> Not saying it's right, just that it's...inevitable.
>
> Ultimately, I think these damned islamists should just get the hell
> outta here if they don't like it that much. No one's forcing them to
> be here. It's amazing how even the "moderates" will deplore suicide
> bombings but in the next breath try to talk about "context" and Israel
> and Palestine and Iraq, blah blah blah...that's like blacks deploring
> crime but turning right around and saying how racism causes crime, blah
> blah blah...enough is enough!
>

Still, rather than blame anyone else, we need to look at our reaction to the
issues and assess whether our response is rational and reasonable. Thus far,
however, I'm not much impressed by what I've seen. Most of the systems put
in place in public places are just like car alarms. They will stop me from
considering an act I wouldn't do anyway, but will have no effect upon a
committed felon.

> NYC abolished sales taxes on clothing under ~$100, but then 9/11
> happened and the City needed money so all kinds of taxes got put back
> in and even went up...one thing after another, and now this! Just
> increasingly ticked off how these yoyos are making MY life
> inconvenient...what the hell we let such people in this country
> anyway??
>

My point is that our government has made your life less pleasant. When
threatened, you have multiple choices. Those enacted by our government have
been to give the public a misguided feeling that security has been increased
and to retaliate. For good or ill, this is what is inconveniencing us all.

So, if you go to the library and check out a certain selection of books, or
visit certain websites, post certain words in your emails and posts, take
pictures of landmarks, paddle in the wrong area, etc., you can assume that
the government monitors are going to note this information and they may well
act on it in some manner. Whether that is increasing security for us all is
subject to debate (some of which works, while some are patently ridiculous).

Rick

Date: 16 Jul 2005 17:54:58
From: slim
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

Rick Donnelly wrote:
>
> "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1121344343.707796.81160@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Rick Donnelly wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> I don't understand your point-of-view on this one.
> >
> > Aaaggrrh...just kinda frustrated here how these damned islamists are
> > making life mroe and more difficult.
> >
> > Used to be that you could just kayak to the Statue of Liberty and
> > picnic...no more now.
> >
>
> While I agree that it is unfortunate that we are allowing fear to control
> our response, my point is that our reaction to the threat seems to be
> out-of-line with reality. The efforts of our security system seems to be
> rather off-target. We are inspecting people's shoes because one idiot
> couldn't even get his to explode, but are ignoring the logical types of
> threats that are considerably more likely and deadly. In addition, we seem
> to be ignoring the possibility that people in the US (I can't call the Tim
> McVeigh types citizens) are of equal, or greater, threat, than a handful of
> Islamic zealots (most of which are not suicide bombers).

Fat, lazy and stupid Americans want to see "action".

What does it say about us when inspecting shoes is considered
"doing something about terrorism"?

--------------------

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-03-31-then-and-now-usat_x.htm

"Other top officials, including Cheney and Rumsfeld, said the war would
last
"weeks, not months.""

http://www.natcath.com/NCR_Online/archives2/2005b/052705/052705w.php

"More than two years into a war that was supposed to be quick and easy,
and
the justification for which has spun from removing a dictator to
eliminating
weapons of mass destruction to fighting terrorism and, finally, to
planting
democracy that would then spread across the Middle East, Iraq is in chaos."

RayGun sends his lackey to kiss Saddam's ass.
http://www.worldmessenger.20m.com/weapons.html#wms

http://www.bushflash.com/thanks.html
WHY IRAQ?: http://www.angelfire.com/creep/gwbush/remindus.html
http://www.quantumphilosophy.net/files/clips/TimRyan_Medium.mov
http://www.toostupidtobepresident.com/shockwave/chickenhawks.htm

"Bubba got a BJ, BU$H screwed us all!" - Slim

Date: 17 Jul 2005 10:08:03
From: The Unreal Franklin
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

>
> What does it say about us when inspecting shoes is considered
> "doing something about terrorism"?
>

Well, since somebody tried to blow up an airplane using a bomb concealed in
his shoe, it says that we identified a means of carrying a bomb aboard an
aircraft and are taking steps to ensure that nobody *else* tries to do that.

Date: 14 Jul 2005 17:04:51
From: Johnny Thunder
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

Rick Donnelly wrote:
>
> "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1121344343.707796.81160@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > Rick Donnelly wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> I don't understand your point-of-view on this one.
> >
> > Aaaggrrh...just kinda frustrated here how these damned islamists are
> > making life mroe and more difficult.

Actually it's not all islamists it's the fundamentalists. We have the
same problem in the US, it's the fundamentalists christians that cause
all the problems. Not all christians. They have the same problem in
Israel, fundamentalists causing trouble for the majority.

>
> > It's just that security forces can't take a chance. I know it sucks to
> > be racially profiled, but c'mon, this is the real world....
> >
>
> >
> > Ultimately, I think these damned islamists should just get the hell
> > outta here if they don't like it that much.

That is exactly what islamists want the christians in their lands to do,
get out.

No one's forcing them to
> > be here. It's amazing how even the "moderates" will deplore suicide
> > bombings but in the next breath try to talk about "context" and Israel
> > and Palestine and Iraq, blah blah blah...that's like blacks deploring
> > crime but turning right around and saying how racism causes crime, blah
> > blah blah...enough is enough!

Do you have any idea how many innocent people we have killed in the
middle east? Over 13,000.

How about a moment of silence for them?

JAM

> >
>
> Still, rather than blame anyone else, we need to look at our reaction to the
> issues and assess whether our response is rational and reasonable.
>
> My point is that our government has made your life less pleasant. When
> threatened, you have multiple choices. Those enacted by our government have
> been to give the public a misguided feeling that security has been increased
> and to retaliate. For good or ill, this is what is inconveniencing us all.
>
> So, if you go to the library and check out a certain selection of books, or
> visit certain websites, post certain words in your emails and posts, take
> pictures of landmarks, paddle in the wrong area, etc., you can assume that
> the government monitors are going to note this information and they may well
> act on it in some manner. Whether that is increasing security for us all is
> subject to debate (some of which works, while some are patently ridiculous).
>
> Rick

Date: 16 Jul 2005 17:55:45
From: slim
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

Johnny Thunder wrote:
>
> Rick Donnelly wrote:
> >
> > "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:1121344343.707796.81160@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com...
> > >
> > > Rick Donnelly wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> I don't understand your point-of-view on this one.
> > >
> > > Aaaggrrh...just kinda frustrated here how these damned islamists are
> > > making life mroe and more difficult.
>
> Actually it's not all islamists it's the fundamentalists. We have the
> same problem in the US, it's the fundamentalists christians that cause
> all the problems. Not all christians. They have the same problem in
> Israel, fundamentalists causing trouble for the majority.

Religion is the root for most of the killing in human history.

--------------------

http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2003-03-31-then-and-now-usat_x.htm

"Other top officials, including Cheney and Rumsfeld, said the war would
last
"weeks, not months.""

http://www.natcath.com/NCR_Online/archives2/2005b/052705/052705w.php

"More than two years into a war that was supposed to be quick and easy,
and
the justification for which has spun from removing a dictator to
eliminating
weapons of mass destruction to fighting terrorism and, finally, to
planting
democracy that would then spread across the Middle East, Iraq is in chaos."

RayGun sends his lackey to kiss Saddam's ass.
http://www.worldmessenger.20m.com/weapons.html#wms

http://www.bushflash.com/thanks.html
WHY IRAQ?: http://www.angelfire.com/creep/gwbush/remindus.html
http://www.quantumphilosophy.net/files/clips/TimRyan_Medium.mov
http://www.toostupidtobepresident.com/shockwave/chickenhawks.htm

"Bubba got a BJ, BU$H screwed us all!" - Slim

Date: 13 Jul 2005 13:21:09
From: Rick Donnelly
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

"NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com > wrote in message
news:1121182275.775809.99630@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>
> I actually live in an Arab neighborhood...but all these security
> precautions are making me ticked off! Sorry if folks are offended, but
> I'm becoming increasingly resentful myself...was looking forward to
> paddling and taking pictures, and now feel inconvenienced just by the
> thought that I'd better be careful of what I do! I know my anger's
> misplaced, but you know, it'd be soooooo much easier if these guys did
> everyone a favor and just stayed the hell home, or at least stop taking
> goddamned pictures of landmarks!
>
> I know that sounds very funny...@#$%!!
>

I don't understand your point-of-view on this one. Taking pictures is, as
far as I'm concerned, about as common as farting, and at least as harmless.
Frankly, the problem is the security system which cannot differentiate
between real and imagined threats. Two, four, or four hundred tourists
taking pictures of a bridge is not exactly a threat of any kind when the
technology is such that I can go on the web and look at the bridge in real
time.

While these bozos are chasing down two guys in a boat, the ports of entry of
the US are inspecting less than 1% of the incoming cargo on ships (according
to reports released a couple of weeks ago). Anyone see a problem with this?

Rick

Date: 13 Jul 2005 19:33:01
From: Warren
Subject: Re: Getting Frustrated with Islam Here...!

In article <9z8Be.4412$BK1.2927@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net >, Rick
Donnelly <rjd9999@earthlink.net > wrote:

> "NYC XYZ" <jack_foreigner@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:1121182275.775809.99630@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> >
> > I actually live in an Arab neighborhood...but all these security
> > precautions are making me ticked off! Sorry if folks are offended, but
> > I'm becoming increasingly resentful myself...was looking forward to
> > paddling and taking pictures, and now feel inconvenienced just by the
> > thought that I'd better be careful of what I do! I know my anger's
> > misplaced, but you know, it'd be soooooo much easier if these guys did
> > everyone a favor and just stayed the hell home, or at least stop taking
> > goddamned pictures of landmarks!
> >
> > I know that sounds very funny...@#$%!!
> >
>
> I don't understand your point-of-view on this one. Taking pictures is, as
> far as I'm concerned, about as common as farting, and at least as harmless.
> Frankly, the problem is the security system which cannot differentiate
> between real and imagined threats. Two, four, or four hundred tourists
> taking pictures of a bridge is not exactly a threat of any kind when the
> technology is such that I can go on the web and look at the bridge in real
> time.
>
> While these bozos are chasing down two guys in a boat, the ports of entry of
> the US are inspecting less than 1% of the incoming cargo on ships (according
> to reports released a couple of weeks ago). Anyone see a problem with this?

.:\:/:.
+-------------------+ .:\:\:/:/:.