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Date: 10 Sep 2003 10:45:01
From: Marshall Shelton
Subject: Esquif
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Does anyone have any info on the new canoe material that Esquif is working
on?
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Date: 10 Sep 2003 11:20:38
From: Mike McCrea
Subject: Re: Comments on Bell Prodigy WW Canoe?
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Dan and Eddy,
Your theory is right on, dating back to @ 1990. There was some change
mandated in the composition of Royalex sheets around '90. The Royalex
in pre-1990 boats is unquestionably tougher stuff; we have canoes from
the 80's that have seen 20 years of realtively hard use that are in
better shape then some out our other canoes that are less than 10
years old.
Even weirder are some of the boats that were built in '90/'91. I'd
always thought it best to avoid those years in used canoes - there was
some really bad Royalex around the time of the change. In one
interesting case a friend has a small solo canoe (1990) that he always
claimed was absurdly heavy. I have the same model canoe dating from
1988 and always thought he was maybe talking about a few pounds until
I had the chance to lift his boat. JEEZE - I didn't have a chance to
weigh it, but it had to be at least 25-30% overweight. Looking at the
bright side, at leats it wasn't soft and floppy like some bad 90's
Royalex.
Our newest Royalex canoes (2003 models) are sickeningly soft, they
"bruise" easily and the outer vinyl layer seems to wear away faster.
Kinda makes me wonder if perhaps the Royalex sheets have gotten even
less tough of late. And really makes me think that if I found a well
kept pre-1990 canoe in a model that I liked I'd snap it up (I do now
one tough-on-boats fellow who seeks out old Royalex for just that
reason).
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Date: 11 Sep 2003 03:53:17
From: Dan Valleskey
Subject: Re: Comments on Bell Prodigy WW Canoe?
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Nice to get validation-!
could this whole issue have any bearing on the rumour that Dagger is
bailing out on WW open boats?
You know, fiberglass can be made to be tough as nails, I've often
thought I should have bought a Wenonah Edge, Roger Scott had one for
cheap years back. Looked about like the Mohawk Edge, or maybe a
little like a Viper, I can't quite remember. Cool graphics in the gel
coat though. I have had some hellacious hits on my flat water
composite boats, they almost always bounce back for more.
On 10 Sep 2003 11:20:38 -0700, mccrea@umbi.umd.edu (Mike McCrea)
wrote:
snippsnipp...
>Our newest Royalex canoes (2003 models) are sickeningly soft, they
>"bruise" easily and the outer vinyl layer seems to wear away faster.
>Kinda makes me wonder if perhaps the Royalex sheets have gotten even
>less tough of late. And really makes me think that if I found a well
>kept pre-1990 canoe in a model that I liked I'd snap it up (I do now
>one tough-on-boats fellow who seeks out old Royalex for just that
>reason).
Guess I should keep my eye open for a Genesis or an Encore.
-Dan V.
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Date: 12 Sep 2003 04:55:55
From: Scott Broam
Subject: Re: Comments on Bell Prodigy WW Canoe?
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I had a Wenonah Edge for a while - it was as tough as nails, when you
hit a rock it would rattle your teeth and show only superficial
scratches. It was also as heavy as if it had been made of nails, not
sure of the exact weight, but I'm positive it was heavier than a
similar roylaex boat (heavier than my Viper 12).
Check out Kaz's boats (www.millbrookboats.com) - I had one of his C-1
for a while (a Hornet) and it was bomber. Compared to the price of
plastic boats, his prices are very competitive.
Scott
valleskey@NOSPAMcomcast.net (Dan Valleskey) wrote in message news:<3f5ff06c.367248062@news.in.comcast.giganews.com >...
> Nice to get validation-!
>
> could this whole issue have any bearing on the rumour that Dagger is
> bailing out on WW open boats?
>
> You know, fiberglass can be made to be tough as nails, I've often
> thought I should have bought a Wenonah Edge, Roger Scott had one for
> cheap years back. Looked about like the Mohawk Edge, or maybe a
> little like a Viper, I can't quite remember. Cool graphics in the gel
> coat though. I have had some hellacious hits on my flat water
> composite boats, they almost always bounce back for more.
>
>
>
> On 10 Sep 2003 11:20:38 -0700, mccrea@umbi.umd.edu (Mike McCrea)
> wrote:
>
> snippsnipp...
>
> >Our newest Royalex canoes (2003 models) are sickeningly soft, they
> >"bruise" easily and the outer vinyl layer seems to wear away faster.
> >Kinda makes me wonder if perhaps the Royalex sheets have gotten even
> >less tough of late. And really makes me think that if I found a well
> >kept pre-1990 canoe in a model that I liked I'd snap it up (I do now
> >one tough-on-boats fellow who seeks out old Royalex for just that
> >reason).
>
> Guess I should keep my eye open for a Genesis or an Encore.
>
>
> -Dan V.
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Date: 12 Sep 2003 12:15:57
From: Dirk Barends
Subject: Re: Comments on Bell Prodigy WW Canoe?
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>You know, fiberglass can be made to be tough as nails, I've often
>thought I should have bought a Wenonah Edge, Roger Scott had one for
>cheap years back. Looked about like the Mohawk Edge, or maybe a
>little like a Viper, I can't quite remember. Cool graphics in the gel
>coat though. I have had some hellacious hits on my flat water
>composite boats, they almost always bounce back for more.
From my experiences with a heavily reinforced polyester/polyester
FRP canoe, that 'only' got scratches where (my) Royalex canoe was
deeply dented, I still have the idea that a heavily reinforced
Kevlar canoe will outperform a Royalex canoe in most aspects, except
of course accidents like wrapping around obstacles? True, such a
Kevlar canoe would be (about?) as heavy as its Royalex counterpart,
and cost (a lot?) more. But for touring purposes uses it would
perform much better than Royalex in all aspects, I guess. Point
however is that the Kevlar canoes (that I know) are built for
lightweight, not for strength. In the past, stronger (but heavier)
all-cloth Kevlar canoes were offered by some canoe companies, but
now they are all(?) built with cores. Possible reason for this is that
it will be very hard to sell expensive Kevlar canoes that weighs
about the same as their Royalex counterparts? So I guess it really
is a 'market' problem: there aren't enough customers (if at all?)
that ask for heavy duty Kevlar canoes? But I wonder if this is
because people really prefer Royalex, or is it because they are not
(made) aware that a Kevlar canoe could be made strong enough for
touring purposes, only with a weight penalty?
After having used Royalex canoes for some time now, I think that,
for the _same_ weight, the next time I need/want a very strong
touring canoe, I will try to get a heavy duty Kevlar canoe instead.
In the meantime I will see how my lightweight cored Kevlar
canoe holds up. Till now, it seems to do fine enough.
Dirk Barends
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